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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
And it's changed again. Wow. That'll teach yah to be organized.


Was Christie Lake always a 2 day event?

I'm curious to the format of 1,2,4 rounds on Saturday and 3rd round on Sunday.


I think this is an example of "this makes sense in my head". I think they meant to say that round 4 takes place after lunch, but on Sunday. And no, it wasn't always a two dayer. None of the Silver were.

You have to be on top of the ODSA Series daily...or just wait a month for everything to sort out.
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Holly D
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
And it's changed again. Wow. That'll teach yah to be organized.


Was Christie Lake always a 2 day event?

I'm curious to the format of 1,2,4 rounds on Saturday and 3rd round on Sunday.


Nope. It started out as a one day event, scheduled as the only event for that weekend. Then Breezy Treez was added to that weekend and the ODSA schedule. Then Breezy was cancelled, and I think Spring Fling was upgraded to a 2 day so that the number of gold events would stay the same.
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peachgrinder
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plaid doesn't appear to be on the schedule anymore.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peachgrinder wrote:
Plaid doesn't appear to be on the schedule anymore.


Interesting. The Capital Classic still shows though.
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting indeed...
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Mike McCormick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of details need to be worked out concerning the Plaid Jacket and the ODSA Silver Series.

As for the Capital Classic, the objectives of the ODSA Gold Series are in line with our mission statement “The Ottawa Disc Golf Club is dedicated to delivering a world class disc golf experience to its members and promoting the sport of disc golf within the National Capital Region”.

The $500 added purse for the pros is not as ominous as it may first appears. $200 comes from the PDGA as we are a ‘developing region’. The 2 TOSS nights at the Shire prior to the Capital Classic should raise $150 from green fees which Rob said he would put towards the Capital Classic (assume 15 players each night). The executive discussed supporting the Gold Series by donating $100 (which would be offset if we have 13 out of town non ODGC disc golfer attend, 13 * $8 = $104). This means only $50 would need to be raised through fundraising. This is the logic used for supporting the Gold Series. Rob has indicated he would like to raise the the funds without the club donation but the offer is there if required.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike McCormick wrote:
A couple of details need to be worked out concerning the Plaid Jacket and the ODSA Silver Series.

As for the Capital Classic, the objectives of the ODSA Gold Series are in line with our mission statement “The Ottawa Disc Golf Club is dedicated to delivering a world class disc golf experience to its members and promoting the sport of disc golf within the National Capital Region”.

The $500 added purse for the pros is not as ominous as it may first appears. $200 comes from the PDGA as we are a ‘developing region’. The 2 TOSS nights at the Shire prior to the Capital Classic should raise $150 from green fees which Rob said he would put towards the Capital Classic (assume 15 players each night). The executive discussed supporting the Gold Series by donating $100 (which would be offset if we have 13 out of town non ODGC disc golfer attend, 13 * $8 = $104). This means only $50 would need to be raised through fundraising. This is the logic used for supporting the Gold Series. Rob has indicated he would like to raise the the funds without the club donation but the offer is there if required.


Thanks for the info Mike.

When you mention "non - ODGC" and the potential recovery of funds.

All the Gold Series tournaments as they ran in the past were. $10 extra for non - PDGA and $8 extra for non ODSA. The Flatts spun it as (-$8 for St. Thomas Members/ODSA).

The CC made no comments on this on the flyer last year and just showed one price.

I thought the $8 was for buying ODSA insurance on the spot for 100% participation purposes. I did not think there was revenue potential there.

Will the Capital Classic be?
+$10 for non PDGA
+$8 for non ODSA
+$8 for non ODGC

I mention it not as a concern for the $500 fund raising as that will take care of itself I'm sure.

I mention it so we (ODGC) don't stand out as charging "non-ODGC" fees for the event as the others don't. Maybe you're not even allowed to do that for PDGA Sanctioned events? I don't know much about their sanctioning requirements.

Maybe I missed something and the club gets $8 a participant in the entry fee no matter of status.
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Mike McCormick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The exact pricing for the tournament has not been set but we traditionally have given club members a $5 discount. ODSA insurance is a must and must be purchased separately if you are not a current ODSA member. My previous post was an attempt to alleviate concerns about having to raise the $500. We are currently attempting to create a tournament framework that will hopefully answer all questions about tournment costs.
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Last edited by Mike McCormick on Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are there benefits to the ODGC beyond the increased attendance from out-of-towners that the CC being a Gold event might bring?

It sounds to me, from McMike's description above, that the club stands to lose money on this event (if there are less than 13 out of town players). In addition, there is now less of a chance that local pros will win portions of the $200 PDGA overlay.

Without Rob's generous green fee donation, it seems to me as though the ODSA benefits from having the CC as part of its series, but that the ODGC would be more likely to experience a financial loss than gain.

If you look at the CC strictly on a financial basis, hosting a gold event doesn't seem responsible to me. Maybe my issue is more the ODSA mandated $500 overlay, which I see as a significant risk to the club, with no foreseeable gain. Why is the duty put on the hosting club of a gold series event to come up with the extra $500? Without a benefactor like Rob W, the hosting club would be expected to come up with $300, or, in the case of the CC, 38 non ODGC players. Yes, this can be offset by fundraising/sponsorships, but these fundraising and sponsorship activities could be undertaken for a non ODSA Gold event, perhaps making the tournament more interesting to "on the fence" local pros as well (or, divided amongst the divisions, to provide more incentive to all players).

(Please note that I'm playing Devil's advocate here, and do not opine that the CC should not be part of the ODSA series)
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Mike McCormick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Under the above explanation, the most the club would 'lose', if any at all, is $100. I have always heard that the only way one is going to get better in this sport is to practice and move up and play with people that are better than you. For our top Ottawa golfers, if it does cost us $100 to attract top golfers to play with our best, it is worth it. It will also give the rest of the local disc golf community a chance to witness a high caliber of play. It also gives us a chance to be in on the ground floor of the ODSA Gold Series. Plus the ODSA has included some nice prizes that will be available at ODSA events (check their website for more info). If it turns out this is an utter failure, we have lost at most $100 and next year we will act accordingly.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It just seems unreasonable to me that the hosting club is "on the hook" for the $500 overlay, for an event that the ODSA wants as part of its schedule.

So, besides a few prizes (which I couldn't find mention of on the ODSA site, beyond a trophy) to be handed out at the CC, ODGC gets nothing from the ODSA, right?

Unless ODSA is putting in prizes (to be awarded based on results at the CC, and independent of the series championship) worth that $500 or more, it makes no sense to me.

I would expect that, if the ODSA wanted to support the development of disc golf in Ontario, they would do the same as the PDGA, and be giving the ODGC prize money for the Cap Classic, not forcing the ODGC to effectively put up their own money.

(And I understand that this is all a moot point given the Shire donation, added out of town attendance and PDGA overlay meaning the most that really needs to be come up with is $150, but it's the principle of the thing. We (ODGC) could have come up with the same $500 overlay without the ODSA, and still attract a larger contingent of out of towners than we did last year, and had a successful CC2011.)
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Mike McCormick
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ODSA prizes, see list on bottom of the page, more info about this will be announced by the TD, Rob Wormald. http://www.ondisc.org/?page=2011PDGS

Also, if the ODSA Gold Series is a series of tournaments to determine Ontario's top disc golfer and we have local disc golfers that want to go after that crown, it would be good to have 1 local event that our players can play at without the added travel expense.

The decision has been made for this year. We decided to support Rob's initiative in having the Capital Classic a part of the ODSA Gold Series. If after the event you think it was not worth our time/effort, please do tell us and it will be taken into account for next year's decision.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike McCormick wrote:
The exact pricing for the tournament has not been set but we traditionally have given club members a $5 discount. ODSA insurance is a must and must be purchased separately if you are not a current ODSA member. My previous post was an attempt to alleviate concerns about having to raise the $500. We are currently attempting to create a tournament framework that will hopefully answer all questions about tournment costs.


Thanks Mike.

I've no personal worries on the raising of funds and support the club supporting the event.

I'm just trying to connect some of those ODSA dots and the tournament fee $8 differences I see. I thought TD's (even non ODGC) put that $8 towards an ODSA "membership" or for insurance purposes. Not that you have all those answers but as part of the "over all" insurance information we are gathering.

I appreciate the communication very much.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I can see there is nothing but a benefit for the club with being associated with a gold series event.

The overall benefit is huge too. Exposure of a top course, in top condition. The club is showcasing here and the members do a lot of work. People love the experience once they have it.

The club could do with some growth to this event.

From my trolling I see a top Ottawa golfer attending the series opener. He looks to be bringing at least one family member. Big benefit to that event already. I say bring it!!!
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andros
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:

From my trolling I see a top Ottawa golfer attending the series opener. He looks to be bringing at least one family member. Big benefit to that event already. I say bring it!!!


Wha?! King of the Oonie is that weekend.... how does that work? paranoid
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:
John Pytel wrote:

From my trolling I see a top Ottawa golfer attending the series opener. He looks to be bringing at least one family member. Big benefit to that event already. I say bring it!!!


Wha?! King of the Oonie is that weekend.... how does that work? paranoid


One ex-King will not be there
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briggs
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
From what I can see there is nothing but a benefit for the club with being associated with a gold series event.

The overall benefit is huge too. Exposure of a top course, in top condition. The club is showcasing here and the members do a lot of work. People love the experience once they have it.

The club could do with some growth to this event.

From my trolling I see a top Ottawa golfer attending the series opener. He looks to be bringing at least one family member. Big benefit to that event already. I say bring it!!!


Well said JP.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:
John Pytel wrote:

From my trolling I see a top Ottawa golfer attending the series opener. He looks to be bringing at least one family member. Big benefit to that event already. I say bring it!!!


Wha?! King of the Oonie is that weekend.... how does that work? paranoid


Mike has made some great points to why the ODGC and Rob would want the CC part of the ODSA Gold Series, so I'll try not to repeat, but I will give my take on the matter (as an old guy in the Club).

To have the CC in the ODSA Gold Series is great--by the way, it's been part of the ODSA tournaments for several years now. I have the hat to prove it.

For several years, I tried really hard (begged even once) to have an Ottawa event be part of the Can-AM series, to no avail. This was during a time when I was participating in 6-9 of the Can-AM events a year and traveling every other weekend to compete. The closest events were in Toronto. One year Dobrev won the AM1 series! An Ottawa player winning a series that wouldn't involve Ottawa in the series. Dawn Pengelly would do the tour, win, and still no Ottawa event. I couldn't believe that we weren't able to be given the opportunity to strut our stuff on a pretty big stage.

As a player looking to ALWAYS be improving, I was stoked to hear that the Gold Series was starting up AND one weekend was already penciled in on the family calendar. The Gold Series has peaked a brand new drive to get better (that and winning a National title with Meldrum) and to really test my game.

The Gold Series is showcasing courses across the province (well CF isn't in Ontario, but you get my drift) and who in the Club wouldn't want to showcase ours. I hear bragging of the ODGC being the best Club in the province. Who will know if we don't bring them to the mountain?

CF got a bad rap a couple of years ago from some touring pros and the word got out that CF is too physically demanding, the bugs are brutal, it's too hot, the holes aren't long enough, the holes aren't all reachable, etc. People are starting to make the move back to one of the best courses in Canada and if an extra $500 and ODSA backing will do it, then let's have at'er.

The $500 isn't that big of an issue. It's the DG way really. And, like Mike mentioned, it won't be that big of a task. Rob is already thinking and donating the green fees from the Shire (which is quite generous). I've emailed the 2005 CC sponsorship package to Roxie to also give more ideas for sponsorship. I think it's great the ODGC is ready to donate $100 as well.

Ottawa has a history of great sponsors--Mike's company Forestry IT has given $$$ to events, Serge's printing company has donated $$$, Andy Morrissey has donated to the Plaid and the Club for years, Colin's boss donated $$$ to the Plaid last year--that have nothing to do with disc golf. Rob can get this done, and if he needs Club members' help, we'll help him. That's what we do.

Back in the day when I was president of the Club and working with Kevin, we used to think of the CC as a "disc golf celebration" for all of our disc golf "friends" and put on a good show for them. Making $$$ was not the goal (and it shouldn't be within a PDGA structure as they really don't let it).

I have written extensively on the PDGA format for DG and how it doesn't grow the sport, but I have always been 100% OK with the ODGC having one PDGA event. We owe it to the PDGA, and to our touring friends. The fact that this one-and-only Ottawa PDGA event piggybacks with the ODSA is perfect.

Get excited for the potential of this event. Players are coming from ALL over Ontario to try to beat the mountain. For some of you, this is your "home course advantage". This is your chance to show off; both your course, and your skill on the course.

The Ottawa Disc Golf Club NEEDS to represent at the Provincial level and at the National and International level. The ODSA and the PDGA are the reason we don't get completely laughed at when we approach the NCC, the City, and other organizations about supporting a bunch of men and women throwing plastic at chains.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good stuff JAB.

Bring it home brother!!!!

I'll share a few other thoughts on the series.

1) The final should move around. Dave is going to hate me for saying that. TIML is a great event. It just seems to me we should be able to move the ODSA final around though. Consistent weekend. ODSA chooses the course or has a bidding process for the event.

2) Gold series need to be 2 day events. Makes perfect sense. Does this mean there'll be a build up of 2 day events now so events can try and become gold? Maybe all the PDGA events are already 2 day events. I think a good blend of both works well. Maybe that is gold versus silver but I'm sure many silver events would like to be gold.

3) Silver Series - Other than prizes I'm not sure what's up there. Seems like something so that everybodies noses weren't out of joint not being gold. I just don't see the attraction to it but I'm also not sure what all the ODSA brings to the table. Silver to me is where there should have been the regional flavour of winners and not qualifiers. Maybe that is the longer term vision of this series. 3-4 Silver events in each region. Best 2-3 results determines a regional winner. Keep travel reasonable and looking at the large number of events it might be appropriate. A lighter introduction to travel and competive play.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
1) The final should move around. Dave is going to hate me for saying that. TIML is a great event. It just seems to me we should be able to move the ODSA final around though. Consistent weekend. ODSA chooses the course or has a bidding process for the event.


Good idea. Though, would this take the CC off the Gold calendar?

Quote:

2) Gold series need to be 2 day events. Makes perfect sense. Does this mean there'll be a build up of 2 day events now so events can try and become gold? Maybe all the PDGA events are already 2 day events. I think a good blend of both works well. Maybe that is gold versus silver but I'm sure many silver events would like to be gold.


I'm pretty sure Christie Lake was a one dayer, and then just became two.

PDGA events can be one day, two day, three day...
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