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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
56 post discussion of unplayable lie

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24395


I peeked. I read 3 posts. Mulligans and cliffs. I'm back.
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What they need to do is elimnate the ability for players to use the rules unfairly to there advantage. If one gets called on a foot foul, they should take the worst result of their 2 shots.


So:
if you miss putt then foot foul, get called on it re do your shot....

Sink your do-over shot, you should have to take it from the result of the missed shot.
This prevents foot fouls being called on shots that were real bad.


Last edited by Rolly on Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

""disc on pile of branches, in crack in ground, under bridge, etc.""

What course has this much crack on the ground?
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolly wrote:
""disc on pile of branches, in crack in ground, under bridge, etc.""

What course has this much crack on the ground?


East Hastings Vancouver DG Course. Lot's of crack everywhere.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolly wrote:
What they need to do is elimnate the ability for players to use the rules unfairly to there advantage.
Make a rule about integrity.
Quote:
If one gets called on a foot foul, they should take the worst result of their 2 shots.


On the warning? Interesting.

You should get the penalty stroke right away. No warnings.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Rolly wrote:
What they need to do is elimnate the ability for players to use the rules unfairly to there advantage.
Make a rule about integrity.
Quote:
If one gets called on a foot foul, they should take the worst result of their 2 shots.


On the warning? Interesting.

You should get the penalty stroke right away. No warnings.


this is why I like the discussion on the enlargement of the plant area from 30 cm to 60 cm
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolly wrote:
""disc on pile of branches, in crack in ground, under bridge, etc.""

What course has this much crack on the ground?


JCP? eek
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
this is why I like the discussion on the enlargement of the plant area from 30 cm to 60 cm


This is why I practice hitting my mark. 30 cm is pretty generous.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
You should get the penalty stroke right away. No warnings.


Agreed. Completely. So sorry you missed your mark, or backed in to the woods for your outshot, now take a penalty.

Nobody gets a warning for a mispacked parachute.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
this is why I like the discussion on the enlargement of the plant area from 30 cm to 60 cm


That's what practice is for. Hit your mark, or take a stroke. 30cm is more than enough.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lissyssil wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
You should get the penalty stroke right away. No warnings.


Agreed. Completely. So sorry you missed your mark, or backed in to the woods for your outshot, now take a penalty.

Nobody gets a warning for a mispacked parachute.


I don't agree with you guys at all on this one. If conditions were always ideal (flat, dry, open land) then yes there is no excuse. But we seek out varied terrain which has less than ideal footing at times. We are also designing courses longer, placing a premium on full power fairway drives.

Given the athletic footwork required to execute these fairway drives, it is inevitable that someone is going to miss their mark at times. A warning is totally appropriate. You may have slipped, or rolled or whatever. You get an automatic on your next infraction.

The other example of pushing into a bush is a completely unrelated issue.

I have no idea what parachuting has to do with this conversation.

Ease up there Comrade Stalin.
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Last edited by Thumber on Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
I don't agree with you guys at all on this one. If conditions were always ideal (flat, dry, open land) then yes there is no excuse. But we seek out varied terrain which has less than ideal footing at times. We are also designing courses longer, placing a premium on full power fairway drives.

Risk vs. reward. You always have the option of a standing throw. If you want to risk a run-up, be my guest, but you should be risking the foot foul penalty.

Quote:
Given the athletic footwork required to execute these fairway drives, it is inevitable that someone is going to miss their mark at times. A warning is totally appropriate.

I'm honestly having a hard time coming up with an "other sport" allegory to the foot fault in DG, because of the terrain limitations etc., so for now, I'll just agree to disagree with you, and agree to play by the rules as published, which means you get a warning.

Quote:
You may have slipped, or rolled or whatever.

This, to me, is simply an environmental hazard, similar to throwing into the hallow'een tree. Why not give me a warning for that too, and let me rethrow? It obviously wasn't intentional... (Okay, that was a bit facetious, but I'm in that kind of mood today.) As a professional practitioner of the sport, (which I'm sure we all strive to be), we should be able to evaluate the footing that we'll be throwing from, to decide whether or not it's safe to do a full power run-up. You're definitely going to have to do that evaluation for every subsequent throw after the warning, so why not do it for all your throws?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mistakes happen. I could be dead center in the fairway but due to wet conditions could slip and miss my mark. I think getting one warning is totally appropriate and ameliorates the fact that our courses aren't built to any sort of specification, especially when it comes to drainage.

When the day comes where there is a true pro tour and people can earn a real living playing as a pro I may revise this thinking, but at this point I stand by the warning.

Everyone tries their best to hit their mark, but mistakes happen.

I already adjust my throw based on the footing. What you propose actually takes aggression out of the game to some degree.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
Everyone tries their best to hit their mark, but mistakes happen.


This is the sole reason I think it should involve an automatic penatly, no warning, because I whole-heartly disagree with you that "everyone tries their best to hit their mark".

Most people throw without real regard to where their foot ends up and they put the whole onus on the other players to call their "mistake". It becomes a showdown. And the person calling it becomes the douche.

Off the tee, and there's a firm 3D tee-box line, there is no excuse for throwing outside the box. (Lately we've been playing with flags, trees, cones and faintly painted lines for our tee-lines, and it is silly to ask players to be fully aware if they are in front of, or behind the imaginary line, but these are not 3D tee-lines so I'm good with the mistaken step over.) A 3D tee-line and you merit the penalty, no warning.

Fairway drives are a different matter, and I understand the need for a warning, for most of what Thumber has stated. But I don't think a lot of players put all that much attention or practice into hitting a mark. It's a skill that is trying to follow the rules of the game.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll not speak to DG in general, but here in Ottawa I disagree. There is a high level of awareness of the rules and openness to learning the rules, thx in large part to discussions such as these.

I do not agree that most people don't try or care if they hit their mark. Most of the players I play with (which is most of you) are quite conscientious IMO.

I do tend to agree with you on tee boxes, but only when the box is well designed, constructed and maintained. An example, and this is no offense to rico, is #1 longs and #5 shorts at CF. The box is uneven and sloped somewhat downhill. More than once I have hit behind the line, slipped forward and ended up with both a shanked shot and a foot foul. I hit the mark but slipdover the line. Is that my fault? Bad design? Probably a bit of both, but the design definitely contributed.

This year I have started back over a meter more than I used to in order to avoid hitting right at the end of the box and risking the foul.

When it comes to boxes marked with only one flag there is a great deal of confusion out there. Do you get one meter each way? 2 meters? There are lots of opinions and I don't know that anyone has the answer
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clausr
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think its difficult to have part of your foot on a 30cm line the moment you release your disc if you have any kind of run up. If I had it out for you BBP I would watch you like a hawk and penalize you (no warning) , cause I think you would miss sometimes even with your practice. That would ruin your day wouldn't it.

Most players very much try to release the disc from behind their mark. Most times its inconsequential if thy release 2ft behind their mark throwing in the forward direction.
However I have called people for being off to the side throwing forward or being more than 1ft behind throwing sideways.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clausr wrote:
I think its difficult to have part of your foot on a 30cm line the moment you release your disc if you have any kind of run up. If I had it out for you BBP I would watch you like a hawk and penalize you (no warning) , cause I think you would miss sometimes even with your practice. That would ruin your day wouldn't it.

Most players very much try to release the disc from behind their mark. Most times its inconsequential if thy release 2ft behind their mark throwing in the forward direction.
However I have called people for being off to the side throwing forward or being more than 1ft behind throwing sideways.


Claus, don't even get me started with you. And I invite your hawk eyes.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clausr wrote:
I think its difficult to have part of your foot on a 30cm line the moment you release your disc if you have any kind of run up.

Pardon me, but bollocks. There's about fourteen inches of leeway in 30cm. That's more than enough of a line to hit. And if you can't hit it, then practice it, and get better at it.
Quote:
Most players very much try to release the disc from behind their mark. Most times its inconsequential if thy release 2ft behind their mark throwing in the forward direction.

If it's inconsequential at 2 feet behind, why not give them three? Or four, or ten? It's the rules, man.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

30cm is 12 inches....look at your ruler
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Chuck Shick
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much lateral leeway are people allowed?
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