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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:24 pm    Post subject: Rule of the Week 5 - 803.07 Interference Reply with quote

803.07 Interference

A. A thrown disc that hits another player, spectator, or animal shall be played where it comes to rest. A thrown disc that is intentionally deflected or was caught and moved shall be marked as close as possible to the point of contact, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. Alternatively, for intentional interference only, the thrower has the option of taking a re-throw. Players shall not stand or leave their equipment where interference with the flight or path of a disc could easily occur. The away player may require other players to mark their lies or move their equipment before making a throw if the player believes that either could interfere with his or her throw.

B. If a disc at rest on the playing surface or supported by the target is moved, the disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. If a marker disc is moved, the marker disc shall be replaced as close as possible to its original location, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. (If the two meter penalty is in effect See also 803.08 C and D for movement of a disc above the playing surface.)

C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This one's for Serge. wink
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shoulda called him as soon as he pulled in and parked sly wink
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Mike McCormick
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigBrotherPenton wrote:
This one's for Serge. wink


At the Oonie, on hole 9, Serge was about 2 or 3 feet behind a tree, threw his disc, it hit the tree square on and bounced right back at him, which he then caught.
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike McCormick wrote:
BigBrotherPenton wrote:
This one's for Serge. wink


At the Oonie, on hole 9, Serge was about 2 or 3 feet behind a tree, threw his disc, it hit the tree square on and bounced right back at him, which he then caught.


Hillarious. I almost did the same, but instantly thought how much that would hurt.
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and what was the call?
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surge
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nothing was intentional though, it all happened in a nanosecond. I only wish I could react that fast. laughing
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surge
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike said it left your hands and that's a throw, my next throw was for three.

Last edited by surge on Mon May 04, 2009 2:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

surge wrote:
Mike said it left your hands and that's a throw, my next throw was for three.


I assume this is after a drive. So since you caught it, wouldn't that technically be interference with the flight of the disc? Which would technically make it throw number 4? 1 for the drive, 2 for the tree shot, +1 penalty for the interference = throwing 4 for the next shot?

Just asking, not trying to start a curfuffle.


Last edited by Thumber on Mon May 04, 2009 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigBrotherPenton wrote:
C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.


So the question is, was it a conscious action? If yes, then I guess he would be throwing 5? Ouch.

If it bounced off the tree then came back and bounced off you before you could move, would that be interference? I would say it isn't.

Can you unconsciously catch a disc?
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a wierd one. How do you catch something if you do not intend on catch it. Do reactions count as intent? Obviously he didn't intend to catch it, or did he?

The rule does not specifically talk about your own interference on your discs flight. Which makes me think it might fall under another rule. Either way I am thinking a penalty should have been assesed for hitting a tree 2 feet in front of you laughing
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:

Can you unconsciously catch a disc?


Is instinct a conscious act? To reach out and catch something coming towards you; is that a conscious act?

And I thought this one would be the boring rule this week.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BigBrotherPenton wrote:
Thumber wrote:

Can you unconsciously catch a disc?


Is instinct a conscious act? To reach out and catch something coming towards you; is that a conscious act?

And I thought this one would be the boring rule this week.


After you throw your instinct should be to let the disc go and do whatever you have to do to not touch it again, no?
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No idea. Just sent an email to the rule-dudes.
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was sent from John Chapman.

-------------------------------------------------------
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2009 12:27:21 PM
Subject: Re: Rules Commitee: Interference

Geoff,

To me, this is a violation of 803.07C, and the player would receive a 2-throw penalty, and I would make this ruling on the basis that the player caught the disc. Whether instinctively or not, he made an active attempt to interfere with the flight of the disc, even if this really wasn't his intent. If the disc simply hit the player because it was moving too fast for him to get out of the way, I would rule that there is no penalty.

However, all that being said, I could see how an official or TD might rule that the player did not "consciously" alter the flight of the disc, as it was probably more of a defense mechanism than anything. While I wouldn't rule that way, I could see a TD or official interpreting the rule that way.

Cheers,

John Chapman
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And this from Conrad:
--------------------------------------------

It's a little odd that the rule switches language from "intentionally" to "consciously". If you interpret "consciously" as "intentionally", I think it's implied that the intent is to benefit the player. The word "instinctively" doesn't convey intent. If the disc were caught in apparent self-defense, I'd rule that there's no penalty. However, if the player (for example) reached out to one side to catch the disc, I'd rule that that was conscious/intentional, however instinctive it may have been, and assess the penalty.


My guess is that ball golf always penalizes a player for touching his ball, and intent doesn't figure into it. That's certainly cleaner.


Fortunately, this sort of situation should be extremely rare.


-Conrad
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burjwahzeh
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoa.
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deuce
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Rule of the Week 5 - 803.07 Interference Reply with quote

BigBrotherPenton wrote:
803.07 Interference

C. Any player who consciously alters the course of a thrown disc, or consciously moves or obscures another player's thrown disc at rest or a marker disc, other than by the action of a competitively thrown disc or in the process of identification, shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by any two players or an official.


I've noticed this clause in a number of the rules. Why does it need to be observed by two players or an official to be a penalty? If I accidentally kick Carl's disc in the water (accident, honest...) it should be a penalty regardless of who sees it.

I can see how this can be used for arguments between thrower and observers, but that should be handled outside of specific rules. What am I missing?
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you would count as one of the players observing.
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