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Hogger
Spin Doctor


Joined: 16 Oct 2004
Posts: 1000
Location: Ottawa, On, Canada (Knoxville, Tennessee, USA)

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:06 am    Post subject: Disc in big pile of tree parts Reply with quote

Last week after throwing what I thought was a beautiful drive I found my disc deep in a brush pile. Composed of small and medium branches and other tree debris, the pile was about 15 feet long, 7 feet wide, and 5 feet high.
(My disc was literally in the middle, surround on all sides by an equal amount of brush).

My question is: Where do I have to stand in order to make my next shot.

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-Mike
"The liver is evil and must be punished."
-Darrick (from pointsincase.com)
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BigBrotherPenton
King of Commentary


Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 10042
Location: watching the paint dry

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:21 am    Post subject: Disc in big pile of tree parts Reply with quote

803.04 OBSTACLES & RELIEF
A.Obstacles to a Stance or Throwing Motion: Players must choose a stance which results in the least movement of any part of any obstacle except as allowed for casual obstacles by 803.04 C. No relief is granted from park equipment (such as signs, trash cans, picnic tables, etc.) as they are considered part of the course. Once a legal stance is taken, a player may not move an obstacle (or hold it back or bend it) in order to make room for a throwing motion. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to make incidental movement of an obstacle.

B. Obstacles Between the Lie and Hole: A player may not move, alter, bend, break, or hold back any part of any obstacle between the lie and the hole, with one exception. A player may move obstacles between the lie and the hole that became a factor during the round, such as spectators, players' equipment, open gates, or branches that fell during the round. Where it is not known if an obstacle has become a factor during a round, it shall not be moved. It is legal for a player's throwing motion to make incidental movement of an obstacle.

C. Casual Obstacles: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, spectators, or any item or area specifically designated by the director before the round. The type of relief a player may obtain is based on the location of the obstacle and is limited as follows:
(1) Casual obstacles between the lie and the hole: No relief is granted except for obstacles which became a factor during the round as described by 803.04 B.
(2) Casual obstacles to stance or throwing motion: The player must first attempt to remove the obstacle. If this is impractical, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole; is on the line of play; and not more than five meters from the original lie, as agreed to by a majority of the group or an official (unless greater casual relief is announced by the director). Alternatively, the player may declare an unsafe lie and proceed in accordance with 803.05.
(3) Casual obstacles to a run up: The player may move the obstacle. No other relief is provided.

D. In situations where it is unclear if an object may be moved or other relief obtained, it shall be determined by a majority of the group or an official.

E. A player shall receive one penalty throw, without a warning, for violation of an obstacle or relief rule.

F. A player who purposely damages anything on the course shall receive two penalty throws, without a warning, if observed by two or more players of the group or an official. The player may also be disqualified from the tournament, in accordance with section 804.05 A (2).


803.05 UNSAFE LIE
A. A player may, by adding one penalty throw, declare his or her lie to be an unsafe lie and relocate to a new lie that is no closer to the hole and within five meters of the unsafe lie. Or, if the player cannot find a lie that suits him or her within five meters of the unsafe lie, the player may, with two penalty throws, relocate to any new lie on the fairway of the hole in play that is no closer to the hole than the unsafe lie.


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BigBrotherPenton
King of Commentary


Joined: 24 Jun 2002
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Location: watching the paint dry

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2004 9:24 am    Post subject: Disc in big pile of tree parts Reply with quote

Get in there...
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JebushatesmethisIknow
Driver


Joined: 22 Aug 2003
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:54 am    Post subject: Disc in big pile of tree parts Reply with quote

Get used to this rule - will probably come in handy on Saturday.
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Big Joe Mufferaw
Disc Jockey


Joined: 12 Sep 2000
Posts: 704
Location: Ottawa, ON, CAN

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:38 am    Post subject: Disc in big pile of tree parts Reply with quote

About a month ago I through some swill on Red #1 into a similarly tall pile of random tree branches as Hogger describes above (maybe it was the same pile). My disc slipped through the cracks like it was one of those old coin boxes where your quarter slides down ramps, and rebounds off walls, until it finally rolled over the perfectly shaped hole and fell into a perfectly shaped well.

It was a miracle that the disc was even spotted deep in this pile. I had to sprawl myself on the wooden heap, and stretch my hand to it's fullest reach, and just barely was able to grab an edge of the disc.

In order to comply with what you're saying above, I'd have to have ripped through this pile, tossing all tree limbs aside helter-skelter like, until I'd finally be able to make a gap big enough for my boot through all that mess of tree limbs.

That just sounds silly. I took my shot from on top of the pile, directly over the spot where my disc had rested.

Was it wrong to not destroy the pile of wood? Should my playing partners have assessed me a penalty stroke or two?
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BigBrotherPenton
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Joined: 24 Jun 2002
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Location: watching the paint dry

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:14 pm    Post subject: Disc in big pile of tree parts Reply with quote

803.03 STANCE, Subsequent to Teeing Off

A. When the disc is released, a player must:
(1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surface on the line of play and within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in 803.03 E); and,
(2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc; and,
(3) have all of his or her supporting points in-bounds.

B. Stepping past the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when putting within 10 meters.

C. Any throw from within 10 meters or less, as measured from the rear of the marker disc to the base of the hole, is considered a putt. A follow-through after a putt that causes the thrower to make any supporting point contact closer to the hole than the rear edge of the mini marker disc constitutes a falling putt and is not allowed. The player must demonstrate full control of balance before advancing toward the hole.

D. A player must choose the stance that will result in the least movement of any part of any obstacle that is a permanent or integral part of the course.

E. If a large solid obstacle prevents a player from taking a legal stance within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc, the player shall take his or her stance immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play. The player must comply with all the provisions of 803.03 A other than being within 30 centimeters directly behind the marker disc.

F. A stance violation must be clearly called within three seconds after the infraction to be valid. The call may be made by any member of the group or an official. When the call is made by a member of the group, it must subsequently be confirmed by another member of the group. A player shall receive a warning for the first violation of a stance rule in the round. Subsequent violations of a stance rule in the same round shall incur a one-throw penalty.



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