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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:39 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

DO YOU KNOW THE RULE.....
If you throw a disc and hits another player (who is paying attention to the throwers in his group teeing off)and flies another 30 feet and lands OB. What is the ruling? Where are extra strokes added? What are your options for your next shot?

I've got a Coke for the DGer with the right answer.

BBP
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Brother Andre
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:32 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

The disc is played from it came to rest 803.06 (A)
Thrower is assessed a one-stroke penalty (sucker) 803.08 (B)
Disc is played from (a) previous lie OR (b) a point no more than 1m away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed the OB line OR (c) within a designated Drop Zone if one exists. 803.08 (B)

How's that?

Andrew

[This message has been edited by Brother Andre (edited April 20, 2004).]
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:57 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

And this is why he's a fellow Brother!!!!

Absolutely correct in all cases!!

Only the thrower is stroked (lucky guy) for ending up OB. Not the person he hit.

Brother Andre - 1 Coke
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Brother Andre
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:10 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

Yeah, me!

I guess this means I'll actually have to end up at the course sometime, eh?

Andrew
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:08 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

DO YOU KNOW THE RULES........
And now for another Coke...

Driving on Hole #1 Player A (not his real name) pulls out his 167 Beast (probably the World's Biggest disc he got this year at the tournament) and heaves her (all discs have femine pronouns) toward the hole. But because it is Hole #1, and Player A hasn't read all the posts last year about Beasts and their earie magnetic pull towards our PM's house, the Beast (the disc not the player) ends up in the drink. It comes to rest about 20 feet off the big tree.

Player A sees the splash, Player B ( not her real name) sees the splash, and Player C (surprisingly this is his real name) sees the splash.

The disc manages to keep an air pocket and floats. The current from the magnificent Ottawa River carries the disc to the shore and a passing boat's wake pushes the Beast onto the beach, away from the water line.

What's the ruling?

BBP
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Brother Andre
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:24 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

It's OB see 803.08 (A) The boat doesn't matter once the current takes effect.

Can this one be a Diet Coke? I'll let other people have a chance now...

Andrew
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Big Joe Mufferaw
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:27 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

803.02 - F

1-stroke penalty since the disc was deemed to be at rest and OB in the water once it was spotted moving only by the mighty current of the Ottawa River by at least two of those players.

Note: My Beast didn't float.

F. A disc thrown in water shall be deemed to be at rest once it is floating or is moving only by the action of the water or the wind on the water.
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:40 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

Brother Andre: 2 Cokes (or Diet)
Big Joe Mufferaw: 1 Coke


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Brother Andre
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 11:58 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

This is actually kind of fun! Who knew that there are rules for this game!?!

Andrew

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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:22 pm    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

DO YOU KNOW THE RULES.......

So Person A learns from his mistakes and this time side arm throws an 171 Firebird FX from RED #1 (and if you didn't know a Firebird FX always, ALWAYS comes back, and if flicked well will skip). Person A has been eating his Wheaties and flicks it down the left side of the down hill channel, a little low, and as we just learned it skips well and comes back.

It comes in nice, but long, and skips beautifully over the Mighty Ottawa's beachs and shores, turning right the entire time, showing all those watching the top side. It comes to rest in the Beaver tree and sticks in it's branches. It sits about 1and a half meters above the water.

What is the call? Where is the next shot from? Why wouldn't he have just shot a Roc? Why is the beaver eating up that tree and not clearing out the forest deeper in so we can put the tee for #1 deeper in the woods? Has anybody actually seen this so called beaver's house he or she is building? Would a beaver make a good pet? Anybody ever eaten Beaver? Probably tastes like chicken.

BBP


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redline
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:32 pm    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

Edit: Referencing Player A's first tee-off from #1 and the responses to that case:
.....

Ah, but there is something missing in these answers: Where is the drop?

The player has a choice:
803.08(B)(1). Where the marker disc lies (in this case, the tee pad)...
or
803.08(B)(2). A point 1 m in and perpendicular to the place the disc went OB (even if this is closer to the pin).
(NB: 803.08(B)(3) does not apply on hole 1).

The answer, if the player is smart, would be to mark the disc from where it went out (to follow option 2), though throwing again would be acceptable (if not foolish).

This section represents a poorly worded section of the rules, since the rules do not stipulate explicitly that the teepads are a playable lie, and assumes that a marker disc has been placed.

Cheers!

[This message has been edited by redline (edited April 20, 2004).]

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redline
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 12:38 pm    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by BigBrotherPenton:
DO YOU KNOW THE RULES.......

It comes to rest in the Beaver tree and sticks in it's branches. It sits about 1and a half meters above the water.

What is the call?
BBP


If the point directly below the disc above the playing surface is an out-of-bounds area, the disc shall be declared out-of-bounds and marked and penalized in accordance with 803.08.

Poor fellow. Reference my previous post for placement details.
Edit: the player takes a stroke and can play again from the tee or the point marked 1m perpendicular from where the disc went OB.

[This message has been edited by redline (edited April 20, 2004).]

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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:44 pm    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

You are half correct...the disc is OB because it is above the water and passed the OB line (Rule of Verticality). But where is the next shot from.....?
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redline
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:55 pm    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

Edit: The UBB ate my lengthy reply. GRRRR!

The disc is considered out of bounds, a stroke is added, and the player replays according to 803.08 (Ref 803.07 (A))

803.08 states that you add a stroke, and either (B)1 use the previous lie (The teepad in this case), or (B)2 mark the disc up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds... <snip> ...even if the direction takes the lie closer to the hole, or B(3) which doesn't apply on hole 1.

In this case, it would be 1m almost directly towards the hole from the shoreline as this is where the disc went OB, and towards the hole would be roughly perpendicular as well.

[This message has been edited by redline (edited April 20, 2004).]

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Sparky
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:49 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

Dude - if you wanna win, maybe you should change your name to 'Big Red Line' or 'Redline Brother'?

Sparky out!

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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:36 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

It has nothing to do with his name Sparky. I'm actually in the process of getting clarification on the lie of his next shot.

In a tournament I was at last year the official stated that because my disc hit an IB tree I was to take the lie from next to that tree, instead of were it went OB first.

I've posted this question on the Rules forum on PDGA.com.

We'll see.
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:34 am    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

Redline you are correct and the official in St. Thomas is wrong. Congrats.

So the count is....

Brother Andre - 2 Cokes
Big Joe - 1 Coke
Redline - 1 Coke
Sparky - 1 Smart Ass Comment

BBP

I'll think of another one today and post....
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BigBrotherPenton
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:38 pm    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

During a tournament at JCP Player G is playing hole #2 and rolls his 172 Comet down the fairways and ends up right in front of the Ground Hog Condo just past the trees. Literally right in front. The back of the lovely Comet is actually hanging out over the hole. If it was quarter football you'd be flicking the disc up to catch for the TD. The TD of the tournament said nothing about the many ground hog holes that litter the park, except to be careful.

What are your options?
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redline
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 2:42 pm    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

quote:
Originally posted by BigBrotherPenton:
During a tournament at JCP Player G is playing hole #2 and rolls his 172 Comet down the fairways and ends up right in front of the Ground Hog Condo just past the trees...

What are your options?


The player has some options.

1. Unsafe Lie: Add a stroke and move the disc up to 5m laterally, not closer to the hole. No arguments, but a stroke is added.

My preference, and this requires some interpretation:
803.04 (C) Casual Obstacles: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles: ..., harmful insects or animals,...
In this case, option (2) applies, which allows that the lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the hole; is on the line of play and not more than five meters from the original lie...

This option adds no strokes, provided it is agreed that the possibility of being bitten by a groundhog makes a groundhog a harmful animal. As you never know where their mouths have been, I would think that you have a strong case for it.

Personally, if you were in my group, I would let this happen, as per 803.04 (D): In situations where it is unclear if ... other relief [may] be obtained, it shall be determined by a majority of the group or an official.

Summary: argue that the groundhog is dangerous, if anyone disagrees, let the group decide (or call in the official) and if they agree, relocate without penalty. If they say no, either shoot and risk breaking your foot or being bitten by a crazy groundhog, or take a stroke and declare dangerous lie.

TD's out there: you can avoid this altogether if you declare groundhog holes subject to free relief as a casual obstacle at the start of a tournament. It means players putting their discs in a hole or in front of one get a free drop.

Cheers!
-P

[This message has been edited by redline (edited April 22, 2004).]

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colin
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:17 pm    Post subject: Do you know your rules? Reply with quote

DO YOU KNOW THE RULES.......

Player A is putting. The disc brushes the chains of the basket and and hits Player B in the legs while he is inapproriately walking behind the basket while Player A is putting.

What is the ruling? Who gets the strokes added?

(This happened today and I'm actually curious what the real answer is, I don't know)

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