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DJ
Mid-Ranger


Joined: 14 Jun 1999
Posts: 259
Location: Ottawa,ON CANADA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2000 2:28 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

G'Day you disc whelding crew.

Ultimate is getting too mainstream for my liking so I'm thinking of making the move. Since I'm only a couple blocks away from our city course its something I might actually be able to kick my butt out to do.

Now here's my question to anyone who cares to reply.

I'm relatively new to the world of disc golf however while I lived out in Vancouver I did manage to play some. I own two discs(if Tom will ever give them back), a magnet and a cyclone plus a few others with name I don't know and a bunch of long distance phone numbers.

Looking to buy a couple discs and curious what I should get. I plan on keeping my magnet but everything else is up in the air. Not just for my beginner game now but something I could grow into and use down the road.

Suggestions??

DJ

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SeaBass
Putter


Joined: 30 Aug 2000
Posts: 100
Location: what's it to ya?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 7:05 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

Those are both excellent discs and a good choice for your first two (driver and putter). Now I'd look for an understable disc (disc that breaks right). I'd suggest a Stratus, Comet or a Stingray.

The concept is all golf discs want to break left, some with a little hyzer will break right before they eventually want to go left (due to a lack of spin). An understable disc will also make a great roller disc for windy days.

Start filling up your golf bag with a variety of discs that will help you out of almost any situation.

After buying an understable disc I'd recommend another driver that will go straight a long way before breaking left. A couple of good suggestions are the Eagle and Whippet.

Good luck and see you on the course.

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Shaggy
Spin Doctor


Joined: 07 Sep 2000
Posts: 1000
Location: Ashton, ON

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 8:49 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

Fresh Fish.

Ya, you go buy those disc's and you'll be throwing swill just like Seabass in no time.

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SeaBass
Putter


Joined: 30 Aug 2000
Posts: 100
Location: what's it to ya?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 9:02 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

This rebuke is coming from a guy who spends more time in the woods than on the course! Hey Shag, what was your ranking at the Plaid?
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LittleWheels
Putter


Joined: 07 Jun 2000
Posts: 127
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 10:12 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

The first thing you should go out and buy is a box of salt.

Because everything SeaBass says with regards to disc golf should be taken with a grain of salt.

LittleWheels.

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SeaBass
Putter


Joined: 30 Aug 2000
Posts: 100
Location: what's it to ya?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 10:17 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

Didn't you promise to leave this forum till the spring? What can we expect, you also promised to show us your real game but that never materialized.
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Chuck Shick
Plaid Jacket Champion


Joined: 05 Sep 2000
Posts: 1897
Location: Chelsea

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 10:18 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

My Two cents:

Try and buy straighter flying discs (consult the charts at cd exchange) to begin with. They will behave a little bit like an unltrastar while you get your feet under you.

As for these "right turning discs", ignore what you hear. They are "placebo discs".

They turn right because people believe they do and as result they throw a them a certain way. If you throw a disc inside out, it goes a certain way and if you throw a disc outside in it will go the other way.

If you throw a right turning disc flat, it will not turn right. The laws of physics have not been rewritten by the good people at Innova and Discraft.

Buy your first putter, mid range and driver based on what names you think are cool and what colours appeal to you.

But don't buy a whippet even if you like the name and/or colour. They're crapsandwich.

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LittleWheels
Putter


Joined: 07 Jun 2000
Posts: 127
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 10:22 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

When I see you misleading people with your so called wisdom I feel it's my duty to jump in.

I'm trying to do something for the good of the sport, just like Don suggested.

And how could you see my real game when you spent the summer standing in the long grass looking for yet another misthrown disc.

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SeaBass
Putter


Joined: 30 Aug 2000
Posts: 100
Location: what's it to ya?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 10:59 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

This coming from the guy who has his own scuba equipment to fish his disc out.
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Mike Hall Jones
Guru of Gab


Joined: 14 Jun 1999
Posts: 1926

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 11:21 am    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

Excuse me? Of course, you can make a disc turn right. Torque it hard.
As the spin decreases, all discs will fall left. If you torque an under stable disc, throw it low and flat, it will turn right. Of course, if you throw it nice and low it will hit the ground before the spin decays and it dies left.

If I throw my eclipse or wolf with good spin, it will travel from left to right around a tree. If I throw it low, it will hit the ground behind the tree. If I throw it high, it will get around behind that tree, start to stall and die left.

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Ken Darcovich
GOAT Champion


Joined: 14 Jun 1999
Posts: 2609
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 1:36 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

MHJ is right, I'll elaborate further.

"Stability" is a relative term, tied in with the intended air speeds of the discs in question, and how they hold their line.

There are two competing physical forces which dictate the trajectories obtained by a disc. We assume RH backhands. Because the disc is rotating, the airspeed on the left side of the disc is the translational speed (how fast it's moving forward) plus the rotational speed, and on the right side of the disc, it's the translational speed minus the rotational speed. Lift is proportional to airspeed, so lots of rotation will lift up the left side of a disc and cause its flight to veer right. In general, the lighter the disc, the less rotation is required to lift up its left side. Also in general, the rotational speed will be proportional to the forward speed simply through the act of throwing, although the degree of "snap" can be an additional influence. The other force is a leftwards pushing pressure force arising from the external flow of the air around the rotating disc. The physical profile of the disc determines the extent of this pressure force.

For example, consider a throw of 10 m.
Here we'll try a putter and a brand new 176 g Banshee. The speed required to go 10 m is low, so the rotational lift generated by the Banshee is small, and the result is that the pressure force dominates and the disc falls sharply to the left. The two forces are in fairly good balance for a putter going 10 m, and consequently, the disc flies straight.

Now let's try a throw of 70 m with a Stratus, an XL and the Banshee. 70 m is an interesting distance where the various properties of different discs can dominate, truly exposing the range of tendencies available from using different model discs. The profile of the Stratus produces a lesser leftward pressure force, so given the speed required to reach 70 m, there will be sufficient lift with this disc to raise its left side and turn the flight right. Throwing an XL 70 m (with a flat release) will likely produce a fairly straight throw. Throwing a heavy Banshee 70 m will likely not provide enough airspeed and rotation to dominate its strong leftward pressure force, and the disc will fall to the left.

Now let's take these same 3 discs and go for 110 m. I'm not sure if it's possible to move a Stratus 110 m through the air. The speed required would lift up the left side, turning the disc sharply over, falling hard right and short. To reach 110 m, an XL would likely turn over to some extent as well. This can be compensated for however, by either releasing the disc slightly i-o to neutralize the turnover, or else aiming it more upwards so that the turnover can take place without causing the disc to land, and eventually when viscous drag has slowed down the rotation rate and the leftward pressure force takes over, the disc is still in the air, and can glide out back left to get the "S" trajectory. Finally, a 176 g Banshee thrown hard and flat for 110 m would likely go fairly straight, since the high rotation would fight off the leftward force until the end of the flight, where a slight left fall off would occur.

All the above describe throws in the open. When there are obstacles to navigate, then disc choice, release speed, release angles
and snap become an art to achieve a desired flight path.

Another thought: If you threw the Banshee with enough speed to reach 170 m, it too, would likely turn over.

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Chuck Shick
Plaid Jacket Champion


Joined: 05 Sep 2000
Posts: 1897
Location: Chelsea

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 1:55 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

Of course, you can MAKE it turn right. That's what a hyzer is. I am saying there are no right turning discs.

You said it yourself mister Jones. "If I throw it high, it will get around behind that tree, start to stall and die left."

All I'm saying is that no disc stalls and dies right. (unless you throw a right handed-flick or a left handed back hand)

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LittleWheels
Putter


Joined: 07 Jun 2000
Posts: 127
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 1:57 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

Man, no wonder Ken D. is the proud owner of a plaid jacket. The boy really knows his shit!

LW.

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SeaBass
Putter


Joined: 30 Aug 2000
Posts: 100
Location: what's it to ya?

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 2:16 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

Chuck.

Very classy attempt to retreat from your arguement. Have to give you a 5/10, but keep up the good work your getting better at covering up thoses mistakes. Now if you were only as good at covering up on the forum as you are on the course!

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LittleWheels
Putter


Joined: 07 Jun 2000
Posts: 127
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 2:56 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

I don't think he retreated at all. I think the meaning of his original post was lost on a few people. Discs do what you make them do. Discs turn right when you make them turn right. In order for MHJ to get that disc to turn right wround the tree he has to make it turn right, i.e. a little bit of hyzer.

If you release a stingray flat (no hyzer) it will go straight. If you put the same amount of hyzer on a Stingray and a Banshee obviously the Stingray will cut harder to the right. There are certain discs that will react more dramatically when pushed in a certain direction. But I think to say that a disc is a right-turning disc is a little misleading.

Lets try to avoid crucifying eachother here.

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Ken Darcovich
GOAT Champion


Joined: 14 Jun 1999
Posts: 2609
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 3:01 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

...well yes, but you could also say this:

70 m straight poke, flat release

Banshee - moves left

Cyclone, XL - fairly straight

Eclipse, Deuce, Stratus - moves right

putter - nosedives right into the dirt

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DJ
Mid-Ranger


Joined: 14 Jun 1999
Posts: 259
Location: Ottawa,ON CANADA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 3:22 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

My work is done here. I have revived the life back into the world of disc golf.

See you on the course. I may search for some of these illusive discs that apparently vear towards the bush. From what I gather there should be a lot of them out there. (More weird names with long distance phone numbers)

To infinite and beyond! (Whoosh)

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DJ
Mid-Ranger


Joined: 14 Jun 1999
Posts: 259
Location: Ottawa,ON CANADA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2000 3:29 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

Bad Exit let me try that again


"To Infinity and Beyond!"


Much better. Role credits.

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chowder
Disc Jockey


Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 726
Location: ottawa

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2000 2:29 pm    Post subject: Needing resident expert advice Reply with quote

hey DJ,
May i suggest the clumps of large trees on the right of the 2nd fairway. Those are seabasses favorite trees. Ask the drunk guy in ski pants, he'll show you.

chowder

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