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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: TOSS 2018 [13] - July 24 - Ettyville SuperSpin Reply with quote

TOSS 2018 [13] / QB Challenge 5.1
July 24
at Ettyville SuperSpin (Mids).
All disc golfers are welcome!
Tournament Central is near the barn, and
The round starts at 6:00.
BE AT THE COURSE BY 5:45 PM TO REGISTER!
Fees are $5
Green Fees are $5
This week's TD: Andrew Vallee


* TOSS is operating an Ace Pool as a fundraiser for League Night Finals. $2.00 gets you in the pool, with $1.00 from each entry going to the event. The current Ace Pot value is $61. Ace pools not won carry over to the following week's TOSS event.

* Directions to the Ettyville Super Spin Disc Golf Course are here: Directions

Format:
TBD

Out of bounds:
O/B will be discussed at the players meeting.
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Last edited by lissyssil on Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:24 pm; edited 2 times in total
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Position Last First Raw HDCP Adjusted
1 Pytel John 62 20.64 41.36
2 Pike Steve 53 4.87 48.13
3 Reitlingshoefer Claus 54 5.78 48.22
4 Morrison Chris 60 11.38 48.62
5 Darcovich Ken 54 3.1 50.9
6 Penton Geoff 55 3.57 51.43
7 Visser Carl 54 2.2 51.8
8 Vallee Andrew 59 5.76 53.24
9 Vinet Eric 56 2.69 53.31
10 Kauffmann Andrew 65 11.15 53.85
11 Beaudoin Chris 60 4.99 55.01
12 James Aaron 61 5.88 55.12

[Edited by andros on Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:21 am]
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lissyssil
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Joined: 28 May 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Registered Players:

1. Andrew Vallee
2. Eric Vinet
3. John Pytel
4. Andrew Kauffmann

<span>[Edited by andros on Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:48 am]</span>

[Edited by andros on Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:48 pm]
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Last edited by lissyssil on Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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andros
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In smile
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disco rico
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In !
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In

Proposing this 18 hole layout.

All Mid tee's except where indicated.

2L,4,8S,9,10L,11L,12,13,15,16,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27

I think this one can work and flows well. T-off on time for a change and hopefully cards of 3.
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andros
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
In

Proposing this 18 hole layout.

All Mid tee's except where indicated.

2L,4,8S,9,10L,11L,12,13,15,16,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27

I think this one can work and flows well. T-off on time for a change and hopefully cards of 3.


I'm down with any EV layout as long as it meshes with the HC/course difficulty side of things.
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Ken Darcovich
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:


I'm down with any EV layout as long as it meshes with the HC/course difficulty side of things.



With the exact layout outlined as it is here, the HC factor can easily be accurately tweaked based on the other existing factors. This was done already for the first EV TOSS round this year. It seemed to end up reasonably and coherently. I plan to do the same thing for TOSS 13.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
In

Proposing this 18 hole layout.

All Mid tee's except where indicated.

2L,4,8S,9,10L,11L,12,13,15,16,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27

I think this one can work and flows well. T-off on time for a change and hopefully cards of 3.


I'm down with any EV layout as long as it meshes with the HC/course difficulty side of things.


Currently, I think in order to do that we need to play some 18 hole layouts to create those factors. I believe handicaps work at Ettyville as long as we don't play the shortest and quickest layouts otherwise it mirrors many of the other less challenging layouts out there where the handicaps don't work as well. I'll argue even with these new course factors.

Many of the reference rounds created to the handicap system for Ettyville layouts are not even of the current course layout and date back to the 18 hole layout I believe. I don't even think we can play them anymore even on a classic 18.

I just love these numbers and looking at them, Below is a recap of the first, second, and third place winners handicaps at TOSS events this year. True to form the hard layouts reward the lower handicaps. We are far from perfect still. My handicap is high because I suck but also because my rounds were mostly at Ettyville getting my ass handed to me. I am not sure what the effect of rounds at hard courses has on your handicap. I'd have to have a beer with Ken to firgure that out exactly. Only person to cash with a sub 4 handicap was at Ettyville.

At some point everything is a derivative of how many shots were taken for the round and harder layouts take more shots and your handicap is a shot adjuster. I think the course adjustment factors should come out of that directly and not some historic best 5 raw scores factor but that's the stat's guy coming out. Then we don't need to rely on historic course layouts and can take the system to any course and have it work.

Shire
9.07
5.72
6.62
Kanata
17.44
4.31
15.91
Almonte
8.37
17.03
12.18
Fortune
9.67
15.83
13.25
Shire
8.11
23.39
4.98
Mountain
20.19
7.17
7.13
Fortune
13.14
6.83
10.21
Ettyville (respectable layout)
3.27
6.41
7.00
Mountain
12.76
12.19
6.41
Ettyville (probably the easiest layout without dead walks)
11.31
10.31
6.59
Camp Fortune (Best of)
4.70
4.91
12.18
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bbp
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:


All Mid tee's except where indicated.

2L,4,8S,9,10L,11L,12,13,15,16,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27



Make ^^ the "TOSS Layout" and we'll always play this layout. Would that solve any course score thingy issues? Is there a desire to play different versions of 18? Or make it SET IN STONE! Would the course maintenance crew prefer that eventually disc golfers play all the holes over a season of TOSS? Will tears be shed or names be called for not visiting the back hexa-pond on Tuesday nights?
There's still a deca-pond some will say. A "best of". But a different name. So to avoid confusion. It has 4. I hate it. Let's play it.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
John Pytel wrote:


All Mid tee's except where indicated.

2L,4,8S,9,10L,11L,12,13,15,16,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27



Make ^^ the "TOSS Layout" and we'll always play this layout. Would that solve any course score thingy issues? Is there a desire to play different versions of 18? Or make it SET IN STONE! Would the course maintenance crew prefer that eventually disc golfers play all the holes over a season of TOSS? Will tears be shed or names be called for not visiting the back hexa-pond on Tuesday nights?
There's still a deca-pond some will say. A "best of". But a different name. So to avoid confusion. It has 4. I hate it. Let's play it.


Lol.

If you don't play 4 and 8 at Ettyville can you really call it a round? BTW I hold you and Ben responsible for holes 4 and 8.

The "course thingy issues" apply less at Ettyville on layouts like this one.

For me, I've tried to give everyone a taste of the 27 holes over the TOSS season. Simply because there are 27 holes and whenever we pass on holes we leave out some of these 1000 rated par 3's I keep hearing about.

See you Tuesday I hope.
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Ken Darcovich
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in the HC thread, I now show scaled HCs for upcoming TOSS13 for EV, col 1 for the TOSS11 layout, col 2 for the proposed TOSS13 layout.

According to my reckoning, the 13 layout should play about 2 strokes harder than the 11 layout, so the correction factor was adjusted accordingly.
It ought to work.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ken Darcovich wrote:
in the HC thread, I now show scaled HCs for upcoming TOSS13 for EV, col 1 for the TOSS11 layout, col 2 for the proposed TOSS13 layout.

According to my reckoning, the 13 layout should play about 2 strokes harder than the 11 layout, so the correction factor was adjusted accordingly.
It ought to work.


Awesome Ken!!!

I'll try and scale my game up a couple strokes. TOSS in the beans should about do it.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the record, and for comparison's sake post TOSS on Tuesday, the Average score at TOSS 11 was 58.85.
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Ken Darcovich
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reference scores for a course HC factor are not the average scores, but the average of the top 5 raw scores.

For what it's worth, for TOSS08, we played a layout without reference data.

I estimated the layout at 6 shots harder that the standard new EV layout, moving the ref score from 54.56 to 60.56.

It turned out that the real reference score for the TOSS08 layout was 59.8.
For a 5 handicap, that meant that the estimated reference score score ended up being 0.07 HC points too generous. Not bad for guessing.

Anyhow, as we play more rounds and catalog the results, we will have a larger range of proper reference scores and these concerns ought to evaporate.

For now, I hope that everyone can accept this small amount of uncertainty, trust my good faith in making these estimates, and enjoy the variety of layouts that are presented to us.
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope so ( to make it) you guys and your math hahaha
I say make 3 or 4 different base layouts and play them and just build sample sizes eventually getting large enough sample sizes, then the HC will be more "accurate". you got to build a base


Last edited by Rolly on Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will unfortunately not be able to do Burgers or Coolers for this weeks TOSS.

Sorry gang. Come prepared.

Cheers.
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if its not raining, sure, if it is im building shelves
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could be interesting this evening.

We did not get that much rain last night. The storm moved so slow and kept missing us.

We "may" play the shorter and drier 18 tonight. It will have ot be a game time decision with the TD.

There is some construction on the russell rd coming into Bourget. One of the single lane with lights. It may slow people down a few minutes. If you want to avoid it then I suggest coming in from Casselman.

So with all these factors we'll go with the flow tonight.
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Andrew
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In!
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