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bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1969
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject: TOSS Rules Reply with quote

Does TOSS follow a particular set of rules to govern our rounds?

I hear PDGA rule quotes (some misquoted) out on the course (lost disc, 2m rule, OB, scoring a card), but then some PDGA rules are ignored (practice throws, illegal discs, disc flipping, loose foot faults).

What are we going for every Tuesday? Is it a tournament? Or is it a casual round with a scorecard? Should we be "practicing" tournament style of play? Or keep that for tournaments?

All games for money should have a set of rules set out before we hand in our money so we all know what to expect.
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King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago it was stated that we would follow the Official Rules of Disc Golf as laid out by the PDGA: http://www.odgc.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8150

(This is a different text than the Competition Manual)
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Ken Darcovich
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we've kind of settled on a kind of practical middle ground.

I think most people know the formal PDGA protocol, but at TOSS we're playing among friends we trust, so as long as it's understood that liberties and shortcuts are being taken that make no real difference, everyone seems OK with it. In view of this, if we have new players at TOSS, what I notice is that if they're doing something slightly incorrect, the formal protocol is usually explained to them, so they know the ropes when they're in a formal tournament.

In brief, we understand exactly how, when and where we're taking liberties, and make sure that this gets transmitted to newbies.
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bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to know which rules we are following and which ones we are relaxing because of playing amongst friends if that's the route we are following.

I don't care what. I just want to know.
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Ken Darcovich
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:


I don't care what. I just want to know.


That's the gist of it.

I think it's case by case. If someone has a 1 foot drop-in, everyone is ok with it being a gimme. Often someone else on the card will just pick up someone else's disc. If someone objects to a gimme call (rightfully, because of rules being on their side...), the objection is respected and the player must do the short putt.

So my answer to your wondering is that it's case by case by the players on the card in the particular situation. So far, this has worked. If there's any disagreement, then it defaults to the formal rules. Everyone seems to go along with this.
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bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
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Location: On the green

PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Case by case isn't good enough.

I don't want to be the one that calls someone on something that someone else can get away with.

I want rules. The game deserves rules.

We shouldn't be building a community that has to call someone out on something. We should know what's acceptable and what is not.

I guess I need an answer from the League Director, Atos.
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Ken Darcovich
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't disagree with what you're saying, but you seem to be referring to cases where a player is dishonestly seeking an advantage. Even if there are rules, someone still has to call them on it.

I was mainly thinking about little details like disc flipping and gimmes that make no real difference, but aren't done by the letter of the rules.

What exactly have you been witnessing that you want to get under better control ??
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clausr
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Players have taken TOSS pretty seriously since the Paul B days.

I notice the following:
- practice throws not allowed - good
- players flipping discs to Mark especially at CF - IMO OK no real advantage
- discs picked up by others near basket. Usually 5 footers or less.
- drinking during round
That's about the extent of it from what I have seen. I hope players aren't violating other rules
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Ken Darcovich
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To add to Claus' list, there are also:

- players returning another player's disc by throwing
- players bringing dogs onto the course
- players playing music during the round
- smoking

Usually people ask if these things are ok.

One potential issue is just the peer pressure to endure if someone was the ONLY person to raise an objection to any of these things.

I would like to think that the ODGC knows and values the rules highly enough to go along with any legitimately raised objection without making the person claiming their rights feel like a troublemaker.
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adamsm
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like playing to ‘the spirit’ of the rules.
For example, I do not care about a flipped disc mark or giving ‘a gimme’ when the putt is a drop-in but would not want to see a ‘science shot’.

Trouble is, my “spirt of the rules” might be different from someone else’s ‘sprit of the rules’. I am fine with using stricter rules if makes it easier / more sportsmanlike.

I do want to be able to trust that the scores are fair and legitimate scores in the end.
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King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
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Location: On the green

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those two actions of picking up gimmies and flipping discs doesn't give you a huge advantage over the competition, you're right (though they do give you some as you'd have to go back to your bag for a mini or not flip the disc = mental). Picking up another players disc builds comradery.

There are players playing with lights on their discs. Is that legal? It doesn't say you can't play with a light on in the rules, but it does talk of altering the flight characteristics. Adding a light to the top or bottom of disc alters the flight of a disc doesn't it? Where does a illegal disc stop? Can I play with Daredevil Disc prototype discs? Can I put lights on the edge to get more weight on the edges? Can I just add fishing weights? Can I throw a cracked disc?

Are we allowing practice throws? Throws to our bags across the fairway? Throw discs in disgust at basket when we miss? Play with a catch disc while waiting for holes to clear up?

Obstacles to a stance. Are we allowing players to move branches out of the way? Push back bushes and tall grass? Back walk into our lies?

Excessive time. We relaxed on the 30 seconds? Is picking garlic a good reason to be late to your lie? Rolling one? Visiting a barn?

Are we allowing dogs? Music? (I've now jumped to the Competition Manual) Should a player have to ask to have the music turned off? Or ask not to play with a dog?

These are all the relaxed-rule playing I've witnessed in the first 4 weeks of TOSS.

If these are acceptable, great. Just let us all know.

If these are not acceptable, great. Just let us all know.

Claus won $54 for QB1. That's a lot of money for a game we don't have clear rules for.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did this ever get resolved?
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not yet. And it may not for a while. I'm looking at it right now, and thinking about it a lot. There's no simple answer, but there will be a formalized set of rules for us to follow in the future. They will be based on the PDGA Rules of Disc Golf. There may be some inclusion of clauses in the PDGA Competition Manual, too.

Let me ponder on this as I've been doing, and I'll get back to y'all.
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King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
Did this ever get resolved?


No, but I found out many players depend on others to tell them the rules.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
Thumber wrote:
Did this ever get resolved?


No, but I found out many players depend on others to tell them the rules.


I'm interested as I always thought the odgc had this tremendous culture of respect for the rules and following them closely. Doing a fair bit of rules teaching up here.

Yesterday's lesson was about walk through putts in the circle. I was told I was wrong and it didn't matter if you stepped through as long as the disc had gone in the basket. What? Lol
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King Geoffrey


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some local "rules" are creeping into the Ottawa scene. Some are just old rules being reincarnated as "new" rules (there are a several versions of the PDGA rules so I can see this happening as some the the new ones are similar but different), some are just "casual" golf rules and some are just re-propagandized interpretations of other local rules; "they said in Rochester that the disc must..."

Local rules I guess are OK for a local league because every local knows the local rules. Non-locals would need to be informed of the rules prior to, and this might alienate some.

Teaching local rules doesn't help our members play in other events though.

Personally, I would like to follow the PDGA Official Rules of Disc Golf. It's already written down and available in iBooks or whatever texting-machine-book app you have. Started carrying the rules again to offer to players to prove the rule they claim to know.

Did I mention it's already written down?


Last edited by bbp on Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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Rolly
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Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolly wrote:




Add one to your score each time you throw.
throw from where your disc lands
dont cheat- dont be a cheese dick and bend rules to your favor
dont alter the flight of a disc

its even simpler then the rules of soccer
big grin
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahhh edit--> quote post count buffer
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deuce
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2016 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started playing disc golf about 7 years ago. My first exposure to the sport was on Wednesday nights at the Shire. Despite the relaxed nature of Shire nights, guys like Thumber, OMR, Dros, and Claus were quick to point out the basic rules of the sport to me. I was educated on where to put my foot, how to mark a disc, what a falling putt is, how to deal with OB, and so on.

Eventually I started competing at TOSS and sanctioned tournaments, and the rules I had learned at the Shire were a good foundation for competitive golf. At these events, guys like BBP, Bourgie, and Svets further reinforced these rules and educated me on more aspects of the rules of disc golf. This eventually led me to read the official PDGA rules so I could better understand the nuances of the rules.

Before I get to my rant, I will fully admit that I play with lights on my discs, and often flip my disc at TOSS events, instead of marking with a mini. You won’t see me do this at competitive events anymore.

My observations at the few TOSS events I have played this year have shown to me that letting a few rules slip like flipping discs, which are seemingly innocent, can quickly lead to a total disregard for the established rules. Now we have pets on the course, loud music, angered throws at the basket after missed putts, illegal clearing of debris around lies, and who knows what else.

If this was the state of disc golf in Ottawa when I started 7 years ago, I would have inevitably picked up many of these bad habits. Let’s set a better example for out of town visitors and new players to the sport.

We can do better.
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