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Bigmatie
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Joined: 20 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:39 pm    Post subject: Closest Ace Without Ace Reply with quote

Slammed the basket cage on #4 Kanata just now off my drive. Crappy bounce put it 2ft beside basket instead of flipping it in.

Last edited by Bigmatie on Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:42 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Bigmatie
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am really, really good at not getting them in when clearly I should have been in. Here is an example from last week that should have been an epic 60ft put birdie on #5 Kanata.

I won't name names but some people I was with refused to call this in.

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LeppyR64
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Joined: 15 Jul 2002
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Location: Arnprior, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before the rule change that was in. Now it's not smile
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Jason Lepack
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surge
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it in if it went in the basket and then tried to squeeze out I wonder?
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

surge wrote:
Is it in if it went in the basket and then tried to squeeze out I wonder?


if it was witnessed, yes. If not, no. Stupid rule all around and in need of fixing
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meh
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bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1969
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:


if it was witnessed, yes. If not, no. Stupid rule all around and in need of fixing


Agreed. Change it back to the old rule. If slamming a disc into the basket is your play, then have at'er. (plus the sales of Ogopogos will go through the roof)
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LeppyR64
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fixed how Thumber? No holes in the basket? Or do you prefer the old rule?
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Jason Lepack
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Bigmatie
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My polar bear sure has a nice warp to it now ;p

Throw even better!
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeppyR64 wrote:
Fixed how Thumber? No holes in the basket? Or do you prefer the old rule?


Go back to the old rule. At least it was clear.

Here is the current rule "Basket Targets: In order to hole out, the thrower must release the disc and it must come to rest supported by the chains and/or the inner cylinder (bottom and inside wall) of the tray. It may be additionally supported by the pole. A disc that enters the target below the top of the tray or above the bottom of the chain support is not holed out. "

So if you throw a putt that hits the pole and wedges into the basket, but isn't touching the bottom it is technically not holed out. I would have quite an argument if someone tried to disallow that, but in the end, the poorly worded rules mean that its technically not in.

A solid band around the basket would stop it but make seeing if a disc is in from way out difficult, plus it would be expensive.
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meh
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LeppyR64
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
So if you throw a putt that hits the pole and wedges into the basket, but isn't touching the bottom it is technically not holed out.


Being wedged into the basket is being supported by the inner cylinder of the tray. I don't understand why this is not holed out.

I do agree with the ambiguity that could arise if no one had witnessed the shot entering the basket and the image upon arriving on the scene were like Matie's image. However, how can you prove that it entered or didn't enter the basket. Both instances are equally probable when no one can see what really did happen.

Thumber wrote:
A solid band around the basket would stop it but make seeing if a disc is in from way out difficult, plus it would be expensive.

Expensive was the point I was going to make. If there's a solid band around the basket then there's no need to see if it's in from way out. It's either in the basket or it's not.

I do understand the reason why the rule was changed. Wizards were becoming a more prevalent thing (and the polar bear) and the ability to wedge a disc in the basket was making putting less art and more brute force. I would have hated to see the game go to the point where we were putting with silly putty discs because they would stick to the outside of the basket. (At least this is the reason I would have changed the rule)
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Last edited by LeppyR64 on Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current rule says bottom AND inside wall

So I guess you technically have to be touching both

Its just a poorly worded rule change that created more ambiguity than it solved
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meh
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LeppyR64
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.pdga.com/rule-changes-2011

The disc wedged in the side is in if it entered the basket correctly. Your interpretation of the rule is incorrect.

The bottom and inside wall of the basket are parts of the inner cylinder. The way the rule is supposed to function right now seems to be correct and unambiguous if worded correctly. Right?
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Jason Lepack
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's go back to Matt's photo. If on 5 no one could see the basket

Is it in or out?

By the current rules it is in if no one saw it

However it is pretty obvious it didn't hit the pole, bounce through the cage and stop like that

Poor rule and poor basket design. Even a little more wire on the baskets would prevent this. But due to cheap design, the PDGa has to come up with convoluted rules

I could also argue that a wedged disc is supported by the side walls, not inside wall of the cylinder and is thus not in

So I am left with a rule, where if no one saw it, says the disc is in and out


Poorly worded rule
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Last edited by Thumber on Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:28 pm; edited 2 times in total
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