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bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lissyssil wrote:
clausr wrote:
Mark, One of the reasons we traditionally avoided kanata in mid Summer is because the place is crawling with little kids when there are 2 soccer games per field x 2 fields plus baseball. It may not be fast at all. Something to think about.

Claus

It's a good thing we don't play on the soccer fields or baseball diamond then!


But we do have a blind basket very close to the soccer fields, where the siblings of the soccer players hang out.
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bbp
King Geoffrey


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: TOSS 2014 Reply with quote

briggs wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
...With the right amount of time that'd be a challenging round. Something not many have played in singles play. I never have.


That layout can definitely seperate the men from the boys. Just ask Phillips. being evil


Don't know about men and boys, but it will separate the low handicaps and the high handicaps very quickly. These are pro-level pads.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: TOSS 2014 Reply with quote

briggs wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
...With the right amount of time that'd be a challenging round. Something not many have played in singles play. I never have.


That layout can definitely seperate the men from the boys. Just ask Phillips. being evil


Ouch!!! lol

We need to test Briggsy for PED's!!!
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re: TOSS 2014 Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
briggs wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
...With the right amount of time that'd be a challenging round. Something not many have played in singles play. I never have.


That layout can definitely seperate the men from the boys. Just ask Phillips. being evil


Don't know about men and boys, but it will separate the low handicaps and the high handicaps very quickly. These are pro-level pads.


This might make for good commentary from Bourgie on the "math".

Do we have big arm handicaps? Or will the stroke differential to par on the longer holes be less? (ie. I take a 5 and you take a 4 versus I take a 6 and you take 5.

I think the low handicaps (with big arms) will shine. I think some of the "short game" masters who have low handicaps may not fair so well and conversely the up and coming big arms may fair well.

but it'll be long. I'll serve recovery drinks that day and try to not have nightmares about #4 tee. smile
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lissyssil
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Joined: 28 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we played more super-long courses like Ettyville Pro, I'd suspect you'd see all the handicaps (except those near 0) to rise proportionately. For example, if Player A has a handicap of 10, and Player B has a handicap of 20, and a whole bunch of EttyPro rounds were logged to the handicap system by both, and Player A's handicap rose to 14, I'd expect Player B's to rise to 28.

John Pytel wrote:
Do we have big arm handicaps? Or will the stroke differential to par on the longer holes be less? (ie. I take a 5 and you take a 4 versus I take a 6 and you take 5.


I suspect that the handicap system is probably best for courses in the par 55-57 range. Courses with a lower par than that will favour the higher handicap players, and courses with a higher par will favour those with a lower handicap.

Interesting... I wonder if there is a way to incorporate course par into an adjusted score, so that everyone is on a truly even playing field at every event...
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Thumber
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lissyssil wrote:


Interesting... I wonder if there is a way to incorporate course par into an adjusted score, so that everyone is on a truly even playing field at every event...


Wtf? We going to try to monkey the hc system to make it even more "fair"?

Why not just have a bunch of participation awards made up and hand them out to everyone.

IMO the longs at ettyville are not a great choice for toss. It is a major time commitment and will exceed the the talent curve quote a bit. Not sure that makes for fun rounds. Long rounds with lots of lost discs perhaps.

Go play the longs this spring and the decide
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bbp
King Geoffrey


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lissyssil wrote:

Interesting... I wonder if there is a way to incorporate course par into an adjusted score, so that everyone is on a truly even playing field at every event...


There's a discussion about this on here somewhere. You'd have to do it to every course we play.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
lissyssil wrote:

Interesting... I wonder if there is a way to incorporate course par into an adjusted score, so that everyone is on a truly even playing field at every event...


There's a discussion about this on here somewhere. You'd have to do it to every course we play.


and then nobody can agree on par. laughing
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bbp
King Geoffrey


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
bbp wrote:
lissyssil wrote:

Interesting... I wonder if there is a way to incorporate course par into an adjusted score, so that everyone is on a truly even playing field at every event...


There's a discussion about this on here somewhere. You'd have to do it to every course we play.


and then nobody can agree on par. laughing


I don't think it has anything to do with pars. Slope and Scratch are the important variables.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
Wtf? We going to try to monkey the hc system to make it even more "fair"?
Not at all. Just conjecture. smile

Quote:
IMO the longs at ettyville are not a great choice for toss. It is a major time commitment and will exceed the the talent curve quote a bit. Not sure that makes for fun rounds. Long rounds with lots of lost discs perhaps.

Go play the longs this spring and the decide
Thank you Thumber, your opinion has been noted, and will be considered like everyone else's as I move forward with TOSS this season.

Cheers!
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
bbp wrote:
lissyssil wrote:

Interesting... I wonder if there is a way to incorporate course par into an adjusted score, so that everyone is on a truly even playing field at every event...


There's a discussion about this on here somewhere. You'd have to do it to every course we play.


and then nobody can agree on par. laughing


I don't think it has anything to do with pars. Slope and Scratch are the important variables.


I agree.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: TOSS 2014 Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
bbp wrote:
July 1st - Etty Longs

Wow. We've never played the long tees for a TOSS...


We may finish in time for fireworks though...

I'm hoping that he's got an early start in mind. With the right amount of time that'd be a challenging round. Something not many have played in singles play. I never have.
Ha! It hadn't even occurred to me that that event was on Canada. Maybe a 4pm start would be good...
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: TOSS 2014 Reply with quote

lissyssil wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
bbp wrote:
July 1st - Etty Longs

Wow. We've never played the long tees for a TOSS...


We may finish in time for fireworks though...

I'm hoping that he's got an early start in mind. With the right amount of time that'd be a challenging round. Something not many have played in singles play. I never have.
Ha! It hadn't even occurred to me that that event was on Canada. Maybe a 4pm start would be good...


If you want to play longs at TOSS at Ettyville you picked the right day for it.
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burjwahzeh
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: TOSS 2014 Reply with quote

John Pytel, amoung others wrote:
Do we have big arm handicaps? ...

Handicap spreads are an issue across bolf and everywhere they're used. A google scholar search will bring up a host of papers on the subject. I've read many of them. People have earned degrees looking at that stuff.

The easiest and perhaps most effective adjustment to address the problem has already been implemented: handicap compression.

Handicaps all have a compression factor. The best 10 differentials are averaged, then the result is compressed. We do a 10% compression (multiply the average differential of the 10 best rounds of the last 20 by 0.9). The handicap is thus made lower.

The effect makes little change to a person with a low handicap. A person with a diff average of 4.0 will have a handicap of 3.8

To a person with a higher handicap, it makes a much larger difference. A person with a diff average of 20 has a handicap of 18

Compression does two things:
1) It gives those more consistent players with lower handicaps a performance reward proportional to their demonstrated skill.
2) It gives an incentive to higher handicap players to actually improve their game.

Does the course make a difference? Yes. But we're seeing less of it as Kanata (arguably a more forgiving course than the rest) "grows in". It's at Ettyville on the longer layouts that the 10% compression really shows an advantage to the lower handicap player.

If you go back into the archive in this forum and look at who won where, you can see the tendency for lower handicap winners at Ettyville and higher handicap winners at Kanata.

Remember also that a player that improves substantially is going to beat their handicap a couple of times before it catches up. It's easier to improve substantially when your handicap is 20, compared to the person with a 5 handicap.

Cheers!
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adamsm
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:


Please don't add guerilla courses to TOSS. .



Agreed...one of the great things about TOSS is the adherence to formal golf. It makes the scores legit, the stats valid and the competition real.

Ettyville Longs on Canada Day would be awesome. Might need an early start but if you can promise fast playing cards and good weather it will make a great round of golf.
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The Nicest of The Damned
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And of course we can promise fast playing cards and good weather. Why wouldn't we ever be able to do that?


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Jess
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 30, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ettyville longs? Ill be there! Bring it on boys~
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Jme198
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: handicap Reply with quote

I am planning to play TOSS this summer and I am wondering if I qualify to start with a handicap? I've played in the Plaid Jacket in 2012 & 2013 and I played in Falling Colours in 2013. The only other organized "events" I've played is a handful of rec league nights. It's not a big deal if I can't but it would be nice if I could.
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C-Kyle
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check the handicap thread...pretty good chance your name is on the list
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Jme198
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: handicap Reply with quote

I wonder if I am listed as Jamie Boss instead of Jamie Joss? The score is likely correct at 17.
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