Ottawa Disc Golf Club

Reply to topic ODGC Forums Forum Index -> Ice League -> Ice League | VMP | Nov. 23th, 2013 Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Thumber
LNF Champion


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 8270

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Thumber wrote:
John Pytel wrote:


It's actually cool as it's different then a true up or downhill frold putt. A third option for design and arguably the only option when it is flat.


I don't agree. Good pin placement on the green is a far better way to increase risk / reward.

You should have come out to VMP and tried them out. Those cloth baskets are very small and adding difficulty to them was novel, but not much fun (MY OPINION).


I can't say introducing 2 difficulties on a green is better. I wasn't basing what I had to say about elevated baskets on VMP layout.

On a flat wide open hole, say like 17 at Ettyville, it works to create the effect of an elevated green on your approach shot and putt. Most cost efficient way to do that. Would I do that on 18 holes? Never.


I don't like it on 17 at ettyville either. I hated it at Flat Mountain as well

If you want to increase the difficulty of the green on ettyville 17 you would get a better hole by carving a green into the screen of trees on the left. You then place a very large premium on an approach shot that gets you into position to putt. Very analogous to ettyville #10 green .
_________________
meh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Pytel
Sultan of Swill


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 3692
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
Thumber wrote:
John Pytel wrote:


It's actually cool as it's different then a true up or downhill frold putt. A third option for design and arguably the only option when it is flat.


I don't agree. Good pin placement on the green is a far better way to increase risk / reward.

You should have come out to VMP and tried them out. Those cloth baskets are very small and adding difficulty to them was novel, but not much fun (MY OPINION).


I can't say introducing 2 difficulties on a green is better. I wasn't basing what I had to say about elevated baskets on VMP layout.

On a flat wide open hole, say like 17 at Ettyville, it works to create the effect of an elevated green on your approach shot and putt. Most cost efficient way to do that. Would I do that on 18 holes? Never.


I don't like it on 17 at ettyville either. I hated it at Flat Mountain as well

If you want to increase the difficulty of the green on ettyville 17 you would get a better hole by carving a green into the screen of trees on the left. You then place a very large premium on an approach shot that gets you into position to putt. Very analogous to ettyville #10 green .


and I don't necessarily disagree with you but I know what is the "cheapest" way and that is why you see a hole or 2 on a tournament layout done that way. Forced lay up. Non standard putt.

Elevation is probably a increase in difficulty but don't assume it's all that. It's the effect of elevation that you get with a raised basket,which in turn is difficult. To a designer, who is trying to test all the shot in your bag, there may be more than simply difficulty involved.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thumber
LNF Champion


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 8270

PostPosted: Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Thumber wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
Thumber wrote:
John Pytel wrote:


It's actually cool as it's different then a true up or downhill frold putt. A third option for design and arguably the only option when it is flat.


I don't agree. Good pin placement on the green is a far better way to increase risk / reward.

You should have come out to VMP and tried them out. Those cloth baskets are very small and adding difficulty to them was novel, but not much fun (MY OPINION).


I can't say introducing 2 difficulties on a green is better. I wasn't basing what I had to say about elevated baskets on VMP layout.

On a flat wide open hole, say like 17 at Ettyville, it works to create the effect of an elevated green on your approach shot and putt. Most cost efficient way to do that. Would I do that on 18 holes? Never.


I don't like it on 17 at ettyville either. I hated it at Flat Mountain as well

If you want to increase the difficulty of the green on ettyville 17 you would get a better hole by carving a green into the screen of trees on the left. You then place a very large premium on an approach shot that gets you into position to putt. Very analogous to ettyville #10 green .


and I don't necessarily disagree with you but I know what is the "cheapest" way and that is why you see a hole or 2 on a tournament layout done that way. Forced lay up. Non standard putt.

Elevation is probably a increase in difficulty but don't assume it's all that. It's the effect of elevation that you get with a raised basket,which in turn is difficult. To a designer, who is trying to test all the shot in your bag, there may be more than simply difficulty involved.


Again, i don't agree. From a design point of view it encourages lay ups. Lay ups do not lead to scoring spreads, which is what you should be looking to. #17 is 2 big shots to get near the green. Drop in 3s are very rare. Most 2nd shots I see end up between 40-60 feet from the basket. If the basket is elevated, very few players are going to run the putt. If at ground level, players will more aggressively run the basket, increasing the risk of a blow by and hard 4, maybe a 5. The elevated basket will see almost no 3 tries and lots of drop in 4's.

Elevated baskets, IMO, are a very poor facsimile of elevation. I don't really get why you would want to try to simulate elevation when there are so many other design tools that can be used to increase risk / reward.

The analogue in ball golf, which you referenced earlier, would be building a little mound in the center of the green and putting the cup in the mound. Any miss and you have a large roll away. No ball golf designer would do this.

Same thing is true when you use elevated baskets. Very easy to blow by, thus people layup and take their lumps. It discourages aggressive play, which will lead to lots of pars.

Now #5 green at ettyville is a good example of an elevated green. The difference is that you actually have a hill side that you can throw an approach shot in to.
_________________
meh


Last edited by Thumber on Mon Nov 25, 2013 2:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
The Nicest of The Damned
Ace Race Champion


Joined: 20 Apr 2011
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:

What were the thoughts on the baskets on the picnic tables? Saw Old Man hit one from downtown.


It forced my team to adopt a strategy that someone lays it up and someone goes for it.

Very risk/reward.


Of course, my team's strategy was more layup, run it, or misc.
_________________
Don't you miss the days when you used to be nostalgic?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LeppyR64
Disc Jockey


Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 736
Location: Arnprior, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit, Steve was very good at laying up.
_________________
Jason Lepack
Left-Handed Sandbagger
jlepack AT gmail DOT com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Adrian1657
Driver


Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 460
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

With those baskets, nothing takes the wind out of your sails then a dead on putt that sailed thorgh the chains.
_________________
Ice Bowl is the only good thing with February.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
briggs
Disc Jockey


Joined: 31 Jul 2008
Posts: 593

PostPosted: Wed Nov 27, 2013 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrian1657 wrote:
With those baskets, nothing takes the wind out of your sails then a dead on putt that sailed thorgh the chains.


I feel you there man...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chuck Shick
Plaid Jacket Champion


Joined: 05 Sep 2000
Posts: 1897
Location: Chelsea

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Not super huge. Are the dudes ice climbing the ice basket? Or carving it, I wonder.


Carving I'd say, they appear to be using jackhammers.


This seems incomplete. Shouldn't there be a ton ton wearing a bra or something?
_________________
Cell phones make it easy to communicate with everybody except the people you're currently with.

Will Ferrell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jefrey A. Brother
King Jefrey


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 10042
Location: First tee

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Speaking of tontons, did anyone catch the Lego Star Wars mini marathon last night on Teletoon? Funny stuff.
_________________
Boyle says BOOM!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LeppyR64
Disc Jockey


Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 736
Location: Arnprior, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Nov 29, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Speaking of tontons, did anyone catch the Lego Star Wars mini marathon last night on Teletoon? Funny stuff.


You had lots to watch last night eh?
_________________
Jason Lepack
Left-Handed Sandbagger
jlepack AT gmail DOT com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ODGC Forums Forum Index -> Ice League All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
Page 5 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
RSS Feed for Latest Posts