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Jefrey A. Brother
King Jefrey


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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Location: First tee

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found this:

The Competition Manual for Disc Golf Events wrote:
1.10 Distribution of Prizes

C. Any prizes that a player has earned will be distributed at the completion of the event once the results have been tabulated and verified.

1. Tournament Directors may award prizes earlier at their discretion.

2. Players who leave before the official distribution of prizes do not relinquish their winnings but are responsible for any associated shipping costs.
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ottawa_adam
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Joined: 01 Jul 2010
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Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about this:

805.02

H. After the scorecard is turned in, the total score as recorded shall stand with no appeal, except for the following circumstances:

1. Penalty throws may be assessed at whatever time the infraction is discovered until the Director declares the tournament officially over or all awards have been distributed.

2. If it is determined that the total score was incorrectly recorded, either by an error on a hole score or by an error in totaling the hole scores, including omission of the total score, the director shall add two penalty throws to the correct total score. These penalty throws are not added when the Director corrects a player's score for other infractions determined after the player had turned in an otherwise correct scorecard.

The only reason this comes to mind is because this was discussed on DGCR earlier this year.
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Thumber
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Non sanction charity league Adam.

Purely at the discretion of the td.

Maybe you would like to step up and run ice league?
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OMR
ODGC Marketing


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

snap. laughing

Last edited by OMR on Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ottawa_adam
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
Non sanction charity league Adam.

Purely at the discretion of the td.

Maybe you would like to step up and run ice league?


I would if I wasn't busy working three jobs.
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Jefrey A. Brother
King Jefrey


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ottawa_adam wrote:
How about this:

805.02

H. After the scorecard is turned in, the total score as recorded shall stand with no appeal, except for the following circumstances:

1. Penalty throws may be assessed at whatever time the infraction is discovered until the Director declares the tournament officially over or all awards have been distributed.

2. If it is determined that the total score was incorrectly recorded, either by an error on a hole score or by an error in totaling the hole scores, including omission of the total score, the director shall add two penalty throws to the correct total score. These penalty throws are not added when the Director corrects a player's score for other infractions determined after the player had turned in an otherwise correct scorecard.

The only reason this comes to mind is because this was discussed on DGCR earlier this year.


Those would work if your questioning was about applying penalties for an incorrect scorecard (though the use of the words "may" and "or" leave some room for wiggle) but you were asking "Don't the final announced results of an event stand after the conclusion of the event, even if they're incorrect?" I can't find anything that would say this would be the case, even at a PDGA event.
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ottawa_adam
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for clarifying this, JAB.

I was only asking if this rule would apply in this case and it is now apparent to me that it does not. I was not challenging the integrity of the league, TD or players.

Perhaps I should have begun a new topic in the rules thread and will know better for next time.
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Jefrey A. Brother
King Jefrey


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ottawa_adam wrote:
Thanks for clarifying this, JAB.

I was only asking if this rule would apply in this case and it is now apparent to me that it does not. I was not challenging the integrity of the league, TD or players.

Perhaps I should have begun a new topic in the rules thread and will know better for next time.


I thought it was an appropriate question for this thread, as it happened during this event.

I've often thought the ODGC should write it's own DG rules and competition manual, then I think, that's stupid. Instead we have ODGC TDs who are more lenient and compassionate towards mistakes. I like this more within the Club.

Some TDs are very strict when it comes to scorecard recording and that's fantastic. Then there are those who aren't and that's fantastic too.

In a PDGA event you would expect a strict TD for this topic, therefore you have continuity and certain expectations from one region to another.

I think when you are dealing with friends and members you can afford to be less tyrannical and instead call them out on the forum so they hopefully learn from their mistakes by public shaming big grin.

If it's a recurring theme with an individual, then a TD has some tools to make a stronger statement.

At LNF I take the lenient route, as we are all members (I don't even double check a scorecard until the following day when I record the results). If it was the CC, I'd have scorecard counters and dole out the penalty strokes. I'd be strict at TOSS, but not at IL. That sort of thing.

Regardless, players should take the responsibility of marking their scores correctly on a scorecard. It a matter of respect; respect for the game, respect for your score, respect for others and respect for the TD who essentially has to make sure you're doing your part in the event.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something like this came up at TOSS a couple of years ago. Paul dealt with it like this.
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burjwahzeh
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 3:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Something like this came up at TOSS a couple of years ago. Paul dealt with it like this.

This has happened twice, actually. I did not enjoy the conversation either time. The reality is that mistakes happen, and when they do, they need to be dealt with fairly.

That forum post sums up the rationale quite nicely, and I continue to stand behind that interpretation and decision.

There are two issues at play here:
1) The responsibility of the TD needs to end at some point, and that can't involve shenanigans and edits and recalculations that go on forever (the competition manual at least addresses this aspect by defining an end to a competition);
2) Players really and truly need to take their score keeping responsibilities seriously. The integrity of the tournament, and the entire spirit of competition relies on this one personal responsibility.

There is no disgrace in disqualifying oneself when one sees that an error through their own doing, or through their own negligence, leads to an unfair advantage, or a result that should never have been.

Mistakes happen, but this reality doesn't relieve us of our responsibilities, including the responsibility to report your correct score in a timely manner.
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