Ottawa Disc Golf Club

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Jefrey A. Brother
King Jefrey


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:
List subject to change*

Teebird: Latitude 64 Gold Line Striker, Discmania Star PD
Firebird: Latitude 64 Opto XXX, Discraft Predator
Roc (Rancho/Overstable): Latitude 64 Gold Line Pain
Roc (Ontario/Understable): Legacy Ghost

Let me know what you're looking for and I can flush out more options or details. I can also bring a load to Ottawa this weekend for folks to try out.


The Predator doesn't have the same feel as the Firebird (I've tried). I'll handle the Latitude the next time I'm at Twirly's...if I remember the name. eek Opto XXX?!?
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That Star PD, that's the Freak, right? Meldrum liked that one.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The XXX is no substitute for a good firebird.....that said, the fact that I have to seek out the "good" firebirds is a major issue
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never met a "bad" Firebird. Every single one is the same as the last. Well, the FLs weren't all that impressive.
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clausr
MOD Champion


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I throw a predator, its only like a firebird in terms of stability. The predator has a significant dome, while firebird is more flat top i think.
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clausr wrote:
I throw a predator, its only like a firebird in terms of stability. The predator has a significant dome, while firebird is more flat top i think.

Yes/No. FB's got really domey for awhile. The Predator can be both ways, but usually a domey Predator still has less dome than a domey Firebird.

Either way, the Firebirds that have came out lately are leaps and bounds flatter and more OS than the last 5 years worth of plastic. With that being said some folks are complaining that they are too overstable Very Happy
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
That Star PD, that's the Freak, right? Meldrum liked that one.


Yes. The only major problem with the mold, being that it's Discmania (Innova), they changed the bottom mold for the Champion runs to the plus bottom. However, Innova really takes their time with the Discmania runs and the plastic usually comes out grippier, prettier, and flatter.

I think the moral of the story is, yes there are close substitutes, but no magic discs yet that are better than the original Teebird, Firebird, or Roc. Although I would argue the PD could be seen as an improvement on the Teebird as you can get just a bit more controlled distance and glide.
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.inboundsdiscgolf.com/content/?page_id=431

This is probably the most comprehensive disc comparison tool out there. I have a couple copies of the 2012 edition, but they are always updating for new discs online. Here you can sort by overall turn (net) and get a good idea of disc counterparts in their speed range. Here you can see that the Firebird, Venom and Predator have nearly identical lines of flight. The XXX is more like the OS version of the Firebird.

Example:
http://www.inboundsdiscgolf.com/content/?page_id=431&type=&id1=3763432&id2=6206017&id3=7570434&id4=7408747&n=1139

Also, check out the Legacy Rival. This hasn't come out yet, but it supposedly is the closest thing to a Teebird yet. But that is what everyone speculates about every fairway driver, at least the chart seems to align with this idea.
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Last edited by kenmlittle on Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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lissyssil
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Joined: 28 May 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I looked on the site, but couldn't find it. Where does inbounds source their data from?
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lissyssil wrote:
I looked on the site, but couldn't find it. Where does inbounds source their data from?

Their own ratings based on their throws and observations. Not based on manufacturers data.
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:
lissyssil wrote:
I looked on the site, but couldn't find it. Where does inbounds source their data from?

Their own ratings based on their throws and observations. Not based on manufacturers data.


Actually, I am all kinds of wrong. This is from their website:

Quote:
The values for the Relative Stability Scale come from a total of 18 different flight charts and/or rating systems with as many as six different sources being applied to any one disc. Using multiple data sources has a smoothing effect on a disc flight path and eliminates outlier values caused by unnecessary bias, flight testing extremes, and minor rating errors. The values for each of the various data sources are then normalized, aggregated, and averaged to provide a comprehensive, relative picture of a disc’s expected flight path.


Still, I really like the way they have put the information forward. It's also great being able to compare flight profiles.
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DGCR Comments Thus Far:

big grin big grin

Quote:
Also forgot to mention these are the best feeling discs I have ever felt! No doubt!Feels like a better version of crztal flx by discraft imo.


Quote:
The D1 was overstable, but not as overstable as I expected. The wind was pretty low, so I didn't get a chance to throw it into stiff wind to see how it would do, but it carried a lot further than, say, my force before it started fading out. More like an s/ds destroyer.

The D4 was pretty much a katana with a slightly smaller rim. I expected something significantly less stable than that. Frankly something like a Nuke SS. Once I got it dialed in, it definitely went far.


*WOMP WOMP*

Quote:
I've thrown three different D1's, and they all flew completely differently. One was really overstable (like a new C-PD2), another was like a new XCaliber (slightly overstable), the other was like a broken in Destroyer (slightly understable).


Quote:
I got there early so I got two max weight ones (according to the PIAS scale, not the markings), each with a good stamp and no mold imperfections. At least 50% of them were way off on scaled weights, with some weighing up to 180g. About 80% of the D1s had terrible stamps, some were even double stamped. PIAS had 2 discs on the counter that were unsellable because of the molding.

BE AWARE! Prodigy quality control so far is TERRIBLE

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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, thanks for the hype, Prodigy. laughing

:shakehead:

Oh well. Maybe the discs aren't the greatness of this company and the best is yet to come. One can only hope.

Why is making discs so hard? (I plan to never find out.)
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Well, thanks for the hype, Prodigy. laughing

:shakehead:

Oh well. Maybe the discs aren't the greatness of this company and the best is yet to come. One can only hope.

Why is making discs so hard? (I plan to never find out.)


Yeah, it's early so it's hard to judge them on getting the moulding, etc. down right away. But certainly they could keep their quality levels better than this. They could sell factory seconds at nearly the same price as much demand as there is right now. Would keep them from tarnishing their name early on.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:

They could sell factory seconds at nearly the same price as much demand as there is right now. Would keep them from tarnishing their name early on.


So true. Great idea.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would show that they recognize the problems and are working to address...or at least that it's perceived they are.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
It would show that they recognize the problems and are working to address...or at least that it's perceived they are.


at this point perception is vital
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Chuck Shick
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:

at this point perception is vital


It's their oxygen.

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Innova
Discraft
Lightning Disc Golf
Gateway Disc Sports
Millenium Golf Discs
ABC Discs
Latitdue 64
Vibram Disc Golf
Westside Golf Discs
Daredevil Discs
Aerobie
1080 Disc Golf
Ching
DGA
Discmania
Discwing Golf Discs
Quest Advanced Technologies
Snap Discsports
Wham-O/Frisbee

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Holly D
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meh. It just shows me that they don't' know how to time a product release OR learn from other's mistakes.
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burjwahzeh
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a rookie business mistake.

I really think it's that simple.

There's an alternative outcome if they do get serious. If they dial in their quality, perhaps some of those early mold imperfections would become valuable wall discs.

big grin
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