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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From posts on their Facebook page:

Quote:
Its different because Prodigy is paying the players on the team 10g's a year in salary, no other company does that. As far as plastic I guess we will just have to wait and see. To me the only thing "changing" is that Pro's can now maybe make a living playing DG.


Quote:
...and they are the best quality plastic I've ever thrown. Including CE


I guess some discs are made already. Just not for players outside of the team.

Good job on the hype, I guess.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nikko explains it a bit more (my eyes hurt after reading that page).
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

they still dont have a functioning website
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
they still dont have a functioning website


Holy shitsnacks. It's a new disc golf company. It's January. As long as they are operating by May it's a pretty expedient process. It takes time to start these things.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:
Thumber wrote:
they still dont have a functioning website


Holy shitsnacks. It's a new disc golf company. It's January. As long as they are operating by May it's a pretty expedient process. It takes time to start these things.


Just seems one f those things you would want in place to generate buzz
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Chuck Shick
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They did a good job building the hype, but blew it in every other way...if you ask me.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Shick wrote:
They did a good job building the hype, but blew it in every other way...if you ask me.

It's just a business mantra:
"Do one thing really well, and the rest doesn't matter."

The thing is that in the plastic pie plate industry, creating hype is something that Innova already does well. The market is saturated with hype. Too bad nobody seems to be focusing on what matters: resilient materials and robust, repeatable design. It's a lot to ask of frolf enthusiasts, though.
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, but for some reason DG'ers think that hype means immediate release of everything RIGHT NOW!!

If it were a big Tech announcement or Video Game hype it could be 1-4 years before something is released.

Anticipation is okay...
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:
Yeah, but for some reason DG'ers think that hype means immediate release of everything RIGHT NOW!!

If it were a big Tech announcement or Video Game hype it could be 1-4 years before something is released.

Anticipation is okay...


I didn't say I wanted the product right now. I just think if you are trying to generate interest you should have a functional website and not be relying on Facebook.
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I smell a fundraiser pool coming...
How long will this Prodigy thing last?
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Chuck Shick
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:
Yeah, but for some reason DG'ers think that hype means immediate release of everything RIGHT NOW!!

If it were a big Tech announcement or Video Game hype it could be 1-4 years before something is released.

Anticipation is okay...


Sure anticipation is everything. They did a great job of building anticipation and curiosity but then when the day everyone was waiting for came, it was pretty disappointing. They gave us no pictures of discs, no site, nothing more to see other than a lot of platitudes about the company.

They did a great job of generating interest, but the launch/release was lacklustre. Where's the conversion of interest to action? How will they get my attention again? And what are the chances that I'll ignore it because I don't believe it'll be worth my while? Fool me once...

P.S. I find it curious that you are defending a company that doesn't yet exist while also accusing dg bag makers of ripping us off because they don't have the economies of scale that baseball bag makers do.

Could it be that you are secret investor of this new company? big grin
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Shick wrote:


P.S. I find it curious that you are defending a company that doesn't yet exist while also accusing dg bag makers of ripping us off because they don't have the economies of scale that baseball bag makers do.

Could it be that you are secret investor of this new company? big grin


Well, to give some background on my judgement about bags. I've been to both Boombah (the small-mid sized regional softball company) and Dynamic Discs. Have met and chatted with both owners about their business. Both have nearly the same overhead costs and inventory. They have similair profit margins and value additions and sell products at the same price points. Both companies also have similar markets, albeit softball players may spend a bit more per year on equipment/clothing, but not much. So with all that being said, DD could do a much better job in reducing costs to things like bags and apparel, but instead they add a ridiculous premium to their brand and make questionable choices on suppliers.

Bag Case
OGIO Retail Pricing for Similar Bag Material/Size
http://ogio.com/power/back-packs/metro-ii
DD is pricing bags at 175 + Shipping/Handling

I'm assuming since they are limited production bags OGIO will be charging DD a premium out of the gate, but it isn't good business if DD is paying more than retail prices for standard materials. So if DD is getting charged retail prices they are just applying a standard 100% markup. If not they are adding a premium to their brand probably in the 40-50% range. It seems like they could have stepped away from OGIO and made a bag of the same quality for a lot less. DD keeps using high cost brands like Nike, OGIO, etc. and are increasing the end cost to consumers while not creating any higher profit margin for themselves.



As for Prodigy, I just look at it as a handful of disc golfers who have already made a huge impact on the sport trying to create a new and unique brand. It is a part time job for a handful of people who probably have limited experience in start-ups and business management, so it might be a few years before they are chugging along at full speed. But I think the people involved have a great vision for the sport and could do some really great things in the future.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:
As for Prodigy, I just look at it as a handful of disc golfers who have already made a huge impact on the sport trying to create a new and unique brand. It is a part time job for a handful of people who probably have limited experience in start-ups and business management, so it might be a few years before they are chugging along at full speed. But I think the people involved have a great vision for the sport and could do some really great things in the future.


Is Prodigy all those sponsored golfers? I guess they aren't sponsored then are they, but instead business partners. That is a different direction for the game. I didn't get that from any of their "media" releases.

What is making you think that Prodigy has all those touring golfers on as business partners?
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From DiscGolfReview.com:

Quote:
by JHern » Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:27 pm

Even with the limited disc selection to begin, Prodigy has a lot of interesting sales angles and their pros could be pitching it better. For one thing, the 4 drivers they released all have the same exact rims. This is a good thing for consistency, because you can tune your grip and release to the same rim, and simply change up the disc to get a different flight pattern. But of course, this kind of advantage is only realized if you fill your bag with prodigy drivers. That's a great sales hook, and they could definitely use it to their advantage. But everyone is fumbling that so far.


Crazy.

On a side note, did anyone else hear that Feldberg has been dropped by Innova?
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:

What is making you think that Prodigy has all those touring golfers on as business partners?


Some of the early speculation is that the players do have some royalty stakes or potentially share options in their contract. Pure speculation.

But I am talking more about Phil and some of the folks who are running the company. There is a lot of disc golf history and knowledge behind the company. It seems like they will be prioritizing the pros and trickling down. i.e. Make the desirable pro molds for the big arms, basic mids, putters. As opposed to Innova who is mostly just expanding the Am disc market (Katana, Wahoo, Tern, etc.)

Edit: Fixed Quote Tag
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:

What is making you think that Prodigy has all those touring golfers on as business partners?


Some of the early speculation is that the players do have some royalty stakes or potentially share options in their contract. Pure speculation.

But I am talking more about Phil and some of the folks who are running the company. There is a lot of disc golf history and knowledge behind the company. It seems like they will be prioritizing the pros and trickling down. i.e. Make the desirable pro molds for the big arms, basic mids, putters. As opposed to Innova who is mostly just expanding the Am disc market (Katana, Wahoo, Tern, etc.)


Isn't the AM/Rec market the biggest one?
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:

Isn't the AM/Rec market the biggest one?


Exactly. You won't beat Innova at the game of mass production and distribution, so don't try to play them on their turf with Am/Casual Players. Instead, I like this tourney player direction that Prodigy is taking. We'll see how it evolves, but if it is just a minimalist line up with some cherry plastic. Count me in.

Also, this seems to be the same path Legacy is taking under Steve Rico. I doubt everyone will win, but we've already got some great new plastic from Legacy and they've just been around for 1.5 years or so.

EDIT: Added the Legacy blurb
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kenmlittle wrote:
Jefrey A. Brother wrote:

Isn't the AM/Rec market the biggest one?


Exactly. You won't beat Innova at the game of mass production and distribution, so don't try to play them on their turf with Am/Casual Players. Instead, I like this tourney player direction that Prodigy is taking. We'll see how it evolves, but if it is just a minimalist line up with some cherry plastic. Count me in.


I still don't see/get it. There's nothing new here, except they've "paid" top players to endorse them. And if this payment is "shares" in the company, what is that when you're only catering to 20% of the market, maybe?

It's still companies that don't have a business sense or a decent marketing strategy (just pay pros). Disc golf as usual.

Which brings me back to "Yeah, but for some reason DG'ers think that hype means immediate release of everything RIGHT NOW!!" Maybe DGers are sick of being sold on the hype. I was right there waiting for the big announcement coming in the new year, and then the message is "wait", "be patient". "Patient"? They were the ones telling me something was coming, and then they say wait some more. laughing

I agree with Chuck. Fool me once...
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kenmlittle
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:

It's still companies that don't have a business sense or a decent marketing strategy (just pay pros). Disc golf as usual.

Which brings me back to "Yeah, but for some reason DG'ers think that hype means immediate release of everything RIGHT NOW!!" Maybe DGers are sick of being sold on the hype. I was right there waiting for the big announcement coming in the new year, and then the message is "wait", "be patient". "Patient"? They were the ones telling me something was coming, and then they say wait some more. laughing

I agree with Chuck. Fool me once...


Point 1: Yes, I agree that their business sense is lacking. They are business amateurs.

Point 2: They made the big team announcement in early January. They are projecting disc sales in late January. Is that too much patience to ask for a month from announcement to delivery?

I will say even though I am defending their efforts. If they turn out shitty molds and/or plastic, I'm okay with dumping them like a bad habit.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:

I still don't see/get it. There's nothing new here, except they've "paid" top players to endorse them. And if this payment is "shares" in the company, what is that when you're only catering to 20% of the market, maybe?


Again, early speculation. But the flat rate $10,000 annual salary for these young players is a huge deal. If Prodigy can keep afloat as a business and start to begin a sustainable system for employing young DG'ers, that's a big win in and of itself. This players are staying in people's backyards, basements, etc. to make it through a tournament season. If we can start getting the top 5-10-20 on a sustainable income through the summer I would imagine that could only help to raise the level of competition.
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