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OMR
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 3419
Location: Kanata

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Question re stance violation... Reply with quote

If a player foot fouls and has been given a warning, then on a subsequent hole, if that player foot fouls again off the tee (& is called on it, & seconded by a second witness on the card) are they now shooting 3 off the tee (1 stroke for their first illegal shot & 1 stroke penalty) like an OB shot, or are they now just shooting 2 off the tee?
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Thumber
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Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 8273

PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First drive doesn't count. One stroke penalty and redrive. You are 2 off the tee
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burjwahzeh
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Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a great question.

I believe the answer lies here:

803.04
G. Any throw that involves a validly called and seconded stance violation may not be used by the thrower. Re-throws must be taken from the original lie, prior to subsequent play by others in the group.

A re-throw implies that the original never took place. It makes a foot fault equivalent to a practice throw. That means the player is shooting two, not three, off the tee.

This, of course, is not without some degree of ambiguity, because the rules are not explicit on the matter.

If you consider that the rules infraction technically occurs before the disc even leaves the player's hand (which is at the core of the definition of a foot fault), I think you'll agree that the penalty fits the infraction.

Of course, to confuse all of this, 803.06 Optional Rethrow requires that the original throw plus one penalty throw be counted, but the optional rethrow has nothing to do with an invalid shot. It has to do with an undesirable result of that shot which was otherwise made according to the rules.
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Last edited by burjwahzeh on Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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