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John Pytel
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Joined: 17 Aug 2005
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Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clausr wrote:
Thumber wrote:

The issue is players who are still in get automatic wins for players who just drop out. This skews the rankings. Thus I proposed we use a random bye to counterbalance the fact that some people sign up but don't get all their matches in....


Players don't get automatic wins. You don't play, you get nothing. I didn't get any points for the 2 matches I didn't play.
You only get points if Rolly says you do and dropouts seem like a legitimate reason.

So all we have to worry about are dropouts, hopefully a very rare event. Maybe you draw someone that will drop out, maybe you won't. Its already random, why add extra randomness.


I don't think this takes fully into account the impact of the 2 games you didn't play. The lack of those results skews the playoff seedings for YOU and YOUR intended opponent. Maybe not an issue for you but probably for them or others impacted by first round match ups.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think we need a rule that claus can slum his way through the regular season, losing match after match, and then come on fire in the playoffs cool
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andros
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clausr wrote:

Players don't get automatic wins. You don't play, you get nothing. I didn't get any points for the 2 matches I didn't play.
You only get points if Rolly says you do and dropouts seem like a legitimate reason.

So all we have to worry about are dropouts, hopefully a very rare event. Maybe you draw someone that will drop out, maybe you won't. Its already random, why add extra randomness.


That's where you're wrong Claus, in the playoffs there were automatic
wins because of people not making the playoffs. an example:


Rolly wrote:
Winner of
1 Penton
Defeats
16 Spike

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Thumber
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:
clausr wrote:

Players don't get automatic wins. You don't play, you get nothing. I didn't get any points for the 2 matches I didn't play.
You only get points if Rolly says you do and dropouts seem like a legitimate reason.

So all we have to worry about are dropouts, hopefully a very rare event. Maybe you draw someone that will drop out, maybe you won't. Its already random, why add extra randomness.


That's where you're wrong Claus, in the playoffs there were automatic
wins because of people not making the playoffs. an example:


Rolly wrote:
Winner of
1 Penton
Defeats
16 Spike


Eliminating non-qualified players from holding a spot in the playoffs would eliminate this but create the possibility of an uneven number of people who do qualify for playoffs.

and this is why I am advocating that if there are to be byes in the playoffs they be randomized
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clausr
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
I also think we need a rule that claus can slum his way through the regular season, losing match after match, and then come on fire in the playoffs cool


You're welcome to try that approach as well. It worked last year.

This past year I decided to win all my matchs. Worked just as good.
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clausr
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andros wrote:


That's where you're wrong Claus, in the playoffs there were automatic
wins because of people not making the playoffs. an example:



That's why I said as did others that only players completing 4 matchs make the playoffs.

There will be buy in the playoffs unless there is exactly 8 or 16 players in. So there needs to be a rule that says who gets it. Why not make it the top point getters?
It works for the NFL, top teams get buys, others play wild card games.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

disco rico wrote:
I still think the best way to get everybody to finish as as many matches as possible is to cram as much as possible early in the season , once summer rolls around ... it gets harder...

For May and June , you can tee off at 730 and get it done...
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deuce
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My $0.02.

1) Minimum Games

I'd keep the minimum games at 4 or even change it such that all 6 games must be played to qualify for the playoffs. Whatever the minimum is, if you don't meet it, you don't make the playoffs and you are not seeded. This would prevent players who don't meet the minimum games from being seeded higher than those who did meet the minimum but had a worse +/- (yes I played poorly).

2) Course Selection

I'll echo what has already been said with a slight modification. A home player can force a match at either Kanata or Camp Fortune. If both players agree, let them play wherever they want. There is no advantage for anyone in this case. I've left Ettyville and Shire out of the courses that a home player can force, because of unpredictable scheduling. Kanata and Camp Fortune are always open.

3) Playoff Bye

If an odd number of players qualify for the playoffs, I would say the #1 seed should get the bye. In my opinion they have earned this. I much prefer this to a random selection.

4) Schedule

I don't really see any issues here, as the schedule offers plenty of time for 6 matches. With that said, would it help if we dropped the month associated with each match? Of course this isn't strictly enforced as it is, but let's encourage everyone to play their matches as soon as possible.
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Jefrey A. Brother
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

deuce wrote:
My $0.02.

1) Minimum Games

I'd keep the minimum games at 4 or even change it such that all 6 games must be played to qualify for the playoffs. Whatever the minimum is, if you don't meet it, you don't make the playoffs and you are not seeded. This would prevent players who don't meet the minimum games from being seeded higher than those who did meet the minimum but had a worse +/- (yes I played poorly).


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Quote:

2) Course Selection

I'll echo what has already been said with a slight modification. A home player can force a match at either Kanata or Camp Fortune. If both players agree, let them play wherever they want. There is no advantage for anyone in this case. I've left Ettyville and Shire out of the courses that a home player can force, because of unpredictable scheduling. Kanata and Camp Fortune are always open.


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Quote:

3) Playoff Bye

If an odd number of players qualify for the playoffs, I would say the #1 seed should get the bye. In my opinion they have earned this. I much prefer this to a random selection.


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Quote:

4) Schedule

I don't really see any issues here, as the schedule offers plenty of time for 6 matches. With that said, would it help if we dropped the month associated with each match? Of course this isn't strictly enforced as it is, but let's encourage everyone to play their matches as soon as possible.


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Rolly
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:


Can we discuss eligible courses? I thought Claus had a great suggestion in that CF, Kanata, the Shire and Ettyville are the recognized courses.


Thats Next,
The league cant impose itself on private property. Its never been an issue yet on people holding out and not playing a certain course in the ottawa area thats on private land.
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peachgrinder
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you add a monthly 'reshuffle' to eliminate the issue?

1. Rolly (as GM/Commish) determines the 6 matches you are to play at the start of the season, by division.

eg. Peach is to play Spezza, Alfie, Kovie, Karlsson, Elliott and Lee over the course of the season.

2. In May, Peach plays Spezza and Alfie, and loses both. Lee injures prior to his first match himself and is unable to play matches the rest of the season. All other players in the division play at least one match.

3. At the end of May, Peach's division may now read: Peach, Spezza, Alfie, Kovie, Karlsson, Elliott, and (possibly) Butler (could be either a call-up or from another division). Peach, having played both Spezza and Alfie, still has 4 opponents left in his division. If Butler does not join the division, a game could be scheduled against any other opponent in any other division, and have it count towards his standings, though it may/many not count towards the other person.

eg. Peach plays Butler who was originally in the Murray Division to make up the Lee injury game. This game would count for Peach, but may not count for Butler until either his division loses a player (for whatever reason) or he plays all of his matches. At this point, it becomes a winning percentage tiebreaker (i.e. Peach still has only played 6 matches, Butler has played 7. Peach has a record of 3-3, Butler has a record of 3-4). Depending on who won the game between the two, the tiebreaker may or may not matter; against other players, and with other records, it could be different.

While this is not perfect, it may help alleviate the dropout problem and give someone who is fighting for a playoff berth a chance to help out other players. You could limit/cap games for people going above and beyond their scheduled 6 (i.e 8 games max), but this would be a way for someone to help keep the league going. League games (and appropriate substitutes) would be the first tie-breaker, so that someone could not go 7-1 to take first over someone who played their required matches at 6-0. The 6-0 scheduled league player would always end up first.

More work for Rolly, but not much. Each month would just be who you have left to play, along with standings and possible 'fill-ins'.

In this model, you could add someone later in the year who could qualify not as a division winner but as a wild-card if they made their 6 matches. I.e. Carkner could not play until June, but makes his 6 matches with a 4-2 record, which allows 5 players to fill out their schedule. He would make the playoffs as a possible wild-card, as he might be 'division-less'.
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what i have read 4/6 seems to be popular, to qualify for playoffs, and most seem to want to see the non qualifyers to end up tied for 16th place.

There are a few ways how to finish a match.

Normally with a result.

One person defaults and does not play. Other gets the win.(this needs to be communicated to me. No complaint, then go to the next line--->)

Niether play niether complain, no one gets anything.


Last edited by Rolly on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did a playoff bracket as we did it last year, and a 2nd one if we shuffled the non-playing people to the bottom. 1,2,3,4th ranked would have gotten a 1st round bye,
Old man hellen keller would have played rob I believe. Things would have been preatty similar. Ill bring the 2 sheets to the shire on saturday if anyone wants to see the difference.

The non playing people if shuffled down next year would still "qualify for the playoffs" but again not be alowed to play, giving bye's to the opponents. This keeps the tree shape at 16
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OMR
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty not preatty.
Neither not niether.
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMR wrote:
Pretty not preatty.
Neither not niether.


Pretty, not preatty.
Neither, not niether.
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Holly D
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMR wrote:
Pretty not preatty.
Neither not niether.


Don't you mean "petty", Helen?


wink
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OMR
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holly D wrote:
OMR wrote:
Pretty not preatty.
Neither not niether.


Don't you mean "petty", Helen?


wink


Ouch.
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OMR
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roxie wrote:
OMR wrote:
Pretty not preatty.
Neither not niether.


Pretty, not preatty.
Neither, not niether.


You give me pause to complain.


Last edited by OMR on Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:45 am; edited 2 times in total
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burjwahzeh
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OMR wrote:
Roxie wrote:
OMR wrote:
Pretty not preatty.
Neither not niether.


Pretty, not preatty.
Neither, not niether.


You give me pause to complain.

You have every right to complain. He isn't writing complete sentences.
If we're going to be pedantic and write in a grammatically correct fasion, let's get one thing straight:

You require a subject and a verb.
The following is more verbose, and could be summarized, but you get the idea:

You can correct your spelling if you use "pretty" to supplant "preatty", and "neither" to supplant "niether".


Alternatively,
"Pretty" supplants "preatty".
"Neither" supplants "niether".
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Last edited by burjwahzeh on Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if tha interwebz has taught me one thing its that spelling and punctuation and grammar and general sentence structure ain't no important part of our society no more and that i don't need no spell chkr or grammar nazis ridin up my butt on hows i choose to konvey my message yo
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