Ottawa Disc Golf Club

Reply to topic ODGC Forums Forum Index -> Disc Golf Rules & Course Safety -> Lie
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Hogger 2.0
Driver


Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 361
Location: Innova Champ SL is my long distance service provider

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:07 pm    Post subject: Lie Reply with quote

I read the rules.
But I still have a question.

Tonight my disc came to rest under a small foot bridge. Try as I might I just couldn't get myself into a position where I could have a foot/hand/torso behind my disc.

I could see it through the gaps in the bridge so I played it from behind my disc.

What was I really suppose to do?
_________________
Hillary/Obama or McCain/Count Chocula in '08. That'll be a tough one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
burjwahzeh
Overflow Overlord


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 4460
Location: Somewhere where my mind is not.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the bridge is not specified as OB, the rule of verticality does not apply and you must play the shot where it lies or mark it and play from the marker. According to the "letter of the law" in regards to the rules, if the bridge is OB, the rule of verticality makes the area under the bridge OB as well.

Alternatively, if the bridge is not OB, you have the option of declaring the lie unplayable, repositioning the disc within 5(!) meters along the line extending from the target through the disc, but no closer to the target. This comes with a one-stroke penalty.

This brings up an interesting point, however. The letter of the law in regards to the rules allows a marker to be place lower than the lie, but not above it. When the 2m rule is not in effect, this allows a player to mark their lie under their disc without penalty. If this is allowable under the letter of the law in regards to the rules, is it then implied that the rule of verticality can be extended to marking a lie that isn't out of bounds, and would you then be allowed to play your shot from on top of the bridge? This is not in the letter of the law, but appears to be within the spirit of the law, in regards to the rules of disc golf.

What does it mean?
The rules say you can mark down, but don't prohibit marking up. The rules provide alternatives to marking up (all of which seem to involve a penalty), but if you are able to mark down without penalty, the SPIRIT of the rules implies that you should also be able to mark up without penalty. You won't likely get a definitive answer without having to pose your question to the PDGA rules authorities. Your situation does not appear to be cut-and-dry. I wouldn't expect anything less of Hogger 2.0. Cool

Good luck!


Last edited by burjwahzeh on Wed Jul 12, 2006 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Captain Crunch
Trodden Teepad


Joined: 19 Nov 2005
Posts: 42
Location: North Bay, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a similar scenario from the Q and A on the PDGA Board.

Rule Question: Bridge Over OB (Multiple Playing Surfaces)
Question: My throw landed on a bridge that spans an OB creek. The TD has not said anything about playing from the bridge. Do I play from the bridge, or is my disc OB since it's above the creek? What if I'm on the bridge but over land? Does it matter if the bridge is more than two meters above the ground below?
Response: The answers to these questions revolve around the definition of OB. In the glossary section of the rules, it states that the OB line "extends a vertical plane upward and downward". Where does that plane end? The rules do not address that directly. There seem to be two reasonable choices:

A: The vertical plane extends indefinitely up and down.
B: The vertical plane ends when it reaches another playing surface.

Option A requires less interpretation, and option B makes more sense intuitively. The Rules Committee has discussed the issue and has decided that option B is preferable.

Although the term "playing surface" is not defined in the rules, it is used frequently and it is unlikely to be a source of confusion. Something is either a playing surface or an object on the course. A bridge, though man-made, is intended for foot traffic and clearly qualifies as a playing surface. Since it is not an object on the course, the two-meter rules does not come into play.

The IB/OB status of a playing surface is not affected by the OB status of another playing surface above or below it. OB applies only to the playing surface that contains it. Otherwise, a number of non-intuitive rulings result:


In the bridge example, the part of the bridge that is above the OB creek would be OB. A perfectly playable lie on the bridge could be OB, a foot away from a lie that is IB, when there is no direct reason for it to be OB. Players will have difficulty extrapolating where the OB part of the bridge is, especially if the OB line below is uneven (if it follows the creek's edge). Even if the TD uses paint or string to mark OB on the bridge, those lines will see a lot of foot traffic and may not last.
At least one course has an OB culvert that runs under and opens into a fairway. If the vertical plane of the OB line extends indefinitely, then there is a strip of OB on the fairway over the culvert.
If an OB creek undercuts a bank, then the top of the bank is OB even if it is obviously playable. Someone would have to determine how far the creek undercuts the bank to figure out just where the OB line on the bank is.
There is an overpass with a street high above a section of the course. The street, of course, is OB. If the plane extends downward, then a street-wide chunk of the course below is also OB.
If you interpret the vertical plane to end when it reaches another playing surface. you get much more intuitive rulings in the above scenarios. The bridge is IB, the fairway above the culvert is IB, the bank that overhangs the creek is IB, and the ground below the steet overpass is IB. All of the playing surfaces above are easily distinguished from those above or below which contain OB.

Conclusion: You play a disc on a bridge as you would play it anywhere else on the course. Assuming the bridge is not OB, you mark your lie on the bridge and proceed with the hole. If your disc lands under the bridge, you play it from under the bridge, taking any OB into consideration as you normally would. Of course, the TD or course designer is free to make any or all of the bridge OB, in addition to the creek below.


The PDGA Rules Committee

Carlton Howard, Chair
John Chapman
Conrad Damon
Harold Duvall
Joe Garcia
Jim Garnett
Rick Voakes
_________________
One does not cease to play because One grows old.
One grows old because One ceases to play.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hogger 2.0
Driver


Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 361
Location: Innova Champ SL is my long distance service provider

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a good thing that the rules don't apply to Hogger.

Hogger is a renegade (not like the football team but more like a large biker chick wearing really tight leather pants).
_________________
Hillary/Obama or McCain/Count Chocula in '08. That'll be a tough one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
burjwahzeh
Overflow Overlord


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 4460
Location: Somewhere where my mind is not.

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hogger 2.0 wrote:
It is a good thing that the rules don't apply to Hogger.

Hogger is a renegade (not like the football team but more like a large biker chick wearing really tight leather pants).


That's right. Hogger has had a much more extensive lifespan than the renegades too.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
surge
Champion of Chains


Joined: 06 Sep 2004
Posts: 2962
Location: With my discs!

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So does a fruit fly!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ODGC Forums Forum Index -> Disc Golf Rules & Course Safety All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
RSS Feed for Latest Posts