[BenW]

I know there has been a lot of debate within the PDGA about getting rid of the one stroke penalty for a disc that's more than 2m above the ground. What's the status of the rule? The PDGA DISCussion board gives me the impression that it's to be used at a TD's discretion whereas the actual rules amke no mention of the talked about change.

I only ask because I wound up in a tree on #7 yesterday and wondered if I would have been penalized had it happened at the Capital Classic.

[Middle Master P]

I also read somewhere that there is no penalty for height. plus out of bounds now includes the line so no more "it's only half way in the water..." and lost discs must be played from original lie and so there's no more "where did we see it last..."

[Captain Crunch]

Ben, I hope this helps. It's right from the PDGA Q&A Section.

Rule Question: Is the 2-meter rule still in effect?
Question
Is the 2-meter rule still in effect? Are there new rules for 2006?

Response
Yes, there are new rules for 2006.

In the new version of the rules, the 2 meter rule is NOT in affect unless specifically invoked by the TD. The PDGA default is NO 2 meter rule.

So if the TD doesn't mention it in the players' meeting, the 2 meter rule is NOT in affect.
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One does not cease to play because One grows old.
One grows old because One ceases to play.

[Brother Andre]

So does that mean if a disc in a tree, it's OB no matter what? Or does it mean you have some time to try to dislodge it first...?



Brother
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I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky to find half an hour each week in which to get funky...

[Rolly]

Brother, do you mean if you cant retrieve the disc do you get a one stroke penalty? (Lost disc). Even if its in the tree mocking you in plain sight??

[Captain Crunch]

803.08 Disc Above the Playing Surface

If a disc comes to rest above the playing surface in a tree or other obstacle on the course, its lie shall be marked on the playing surface directly below it. If the point directly below the disc above the playing surface is an out-of-bounds area, the disc shall be declared out-of-bounds and marked and penalized in accordance with 803.09. If the playing surface directly below the disc is inside a tree or other solid obstacle, the lie shall be marked on the line of play immediately behind the tree or other solid obstacle. The director may designate a one throw penalty for discs that come to rest two meters or higher above the playing surface. The director may declare the two meter rule to be in effect for the entire course, or just for individual obstacles. (Sections B through D are only used if the two meter penalty is in effect.)

I would think the mocking disc would have to be considered lost if you cannot retrieve it. Much the same as if it was in the water and you could see it but due to depth or cold you cannot retrieve it.
_________________
One does not cease to play because One grows old.
One grows old because One ceases to play.

[Brother Andre]

[BigBrotherPenton]

[Chuck Shick]

I once played a round where a guys disc was stuck way up a tree. Unreachable, but not lost.

His was the farthest shot so we played the other three discs and proceeded to the spot below the disc at a moderate pace - all the while giving the disc and the wind as much time as possible to blow the disc free. As he arrived under the disc, we started the watch for the 30 second delay of game. At about 22 seconds the disc came free, fell to his feet. He marked and got the shot off in time.

[Captain Crunch]

I have sent an email to the PDGA for clarification on this situation.

My feeling (which could be totally wrong) is that when they talk about "locating" your disc they mean that you can physically touch the disc and not just see it. There are water holes where you can see your disc but cannot get to it and the disc is considered lost. I don't know why the same would not apply to a disc in the tree.
_________________
One does not cease to play because One grows old.
One grows old because One ceases to play.

[BigBrotherPenton]

Your disc is not considered lost when it's in the water, it's considered OB.

A. A disc shall be considered out-of-bounds only when it comes to rest and it is clearly and completely surrounded by the out-of-bounds area. A disc thrown in water shall be deemed to be at rest once it is floating or is moving only by the action of the water or the wind on the water. See section 803.03 F.

Definition of "locate":

lo·cate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (lkt, l-kt)
v. lo·cat·ed, lo·cat·ing, lo·cates
v. tr.
1 - To determine or specify the position or limits of: locate Albany on the map; managed to locate the site of the old artists' colony.
2 - To find by searching, examining, or experimenting: locate the source of error.
3 - To place at a certain location; station or situate: locate an agent in Rochester.


v 1: discover the location of; determine the place of; find by searching or examining; "Can you locate your cousins in the Midwest?"; "My search turned up nothing" [syn: turn up] 2: determine or indicate the place, site, or limits of, as if by an instrument or by a survey; "Our sense of sight enables us to locate objects in space"; "Locate the boundaries of the property" [syn: situate] 3: assign a location to; "The company located some of their agents in Los Angeles" [syn: place, site] 4: take up residence and become established; "The immigrants settled in the Midwest" [syn: settle]


Can you locate your cousins in the Midwest? You don't have to get your cousins in the Midwest. You just have to find them.

[Captain Crunch]

It's not always considered OB just because it is in the water! That is a decision the TD will make at the tournament. There are many situations where you can play your shot from the water if it is not deemed to be OB.
_________________
One does not cease to play because One grows old.
One grows old because One ceases to play.

[BigBrotherPenton]

All right then. This is new but if water is deemed to not be OB - which would be unusual, but I'll go with it - then you must play the disc from were it lies. So if you see it, then you gotta play from it. If you cannot play the disc then you declare it Unplayable:

803.06 Unplayable Lie
A. A player may declare his or her lie to be an unplayable lie. The player is the sole judge as to whether the lie is unplayable. The unplayable lie may be relocated to a new lie that is: (1) No closer to the hole, on the line of play and within five meters of the unplayable lie; or (2) The previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved, from an approximate lie as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official. The original throw plus one penalty throw are counted in the player’s score.

So the person would get a stroke penalty anyways, so why even consider it "lost" when by definition it isn't.

Four posts in and I'm already argueing with a newbie. Fun stuff, eh, Cap'n.

This rule that makes the TD report all OB lines including Water is silly. Water should be OB, unless stated that it isn't. And it used to be a 2 stroke penalty when you declared it unplayable, or "unsafe". Whatever.

[BigBrotherPenton]

If an unretreivable disc costs a stroke, I'll make a formal complaint to the PDGA for putting players in uneeded harms way.

[burjwahzeh]

[Captain Crunch]

It's not argueing it's just discussion. This is fun stuff, picking apart the wording and rules, and just goes to show how much leeway there is in the interpretation of said rules.

I was looking throught the rules book and there is nowhere it actually mentions that water is OB. There is a section under "Marking the Lie" which talks about the disc coming to a stop on the water so I am assuming that if they are talking about marking the lie once it stops on the water then it would not be OB as why would you mark your lie OB?
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One does not cease to play because One grows old.
One grows old because One ceases to play.

[Flatball]

This is getting way too complicated.

I'm just not going to throw my discs into the trees.
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"Think it. And sink it."

[BigBrotherPenton]

[burjwahzeh]

[BigBrotherPenton]

Ben wrote this on July 2nd. I hope he found an answer before today.