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Fisher
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The O O will be bigger and better than ever this summer. It will be on July 23rd at Camp Fortune and will bring friends from far and wide. The full Quebec tour has been announced. The CC must continue this summer so if there is interest in helping with this event contact me or any other ODGC body. As the O O is expected to sell out this summer we will need help the day of the event. Any little contribution you can make ( a lawn to camp on, taking photos, Wakefield spring water, lemonade stand or side game show) would help.

Kyle
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisher wrote:
The O O will be bigger and better than ever this summer. It will be on July 23rd at Camp Fortune and will bring friends from far and wide. The full Quebec tour has been announced. The CC must continue this summer so if there is interest in helping with this event contact me or any other ODGC body. As the O O is expected to sell out this summer we will need help the day of the event. Any little contribution you can make ( a lawn to camp on, taking photos, Wakefield spring water, lemonade stand or side game show) would help.

Kyle


So move it the weekend before the Ettyville events that have been running for over 10 years on that date. Awesome. Love you guys too.
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Fisher
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Fisher wrote:
The O O will be bigger and better than ever this summer. It will be on July 23rd at Camp Fortune and will bring friends from far and wide. The full Quebec tour has been announced. The CC must continue this summer so if there is interest in helping with this event contact me or any other ODGC body. As the O O is expected to sell out this summer we will need help the day of the event. Any little contribution you can make ( a lawn to camp on, taking photos, Wakefield spring water, lemonade stand or side game show) would help.

Kyle


So move it the weekend before the Ettyville events that have been running for over 10 years on that date. Awesome. Love you guys too.


This was moved for the QDGT sked. Travellers out number Ottawa players at this event so we are catering to them. It's good you plan to run both events this summer again. Hopefully no other event in the two provinces conflict with your plans.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisher wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
Fisher wrote:
The O O will be bigger and better than ever this summer. It will be on July 23rd at Camp Fortune and will bring friends from far and wide. The full Quebec tour has been announced. The CC must continue this summer so if there is interest in helping with this event contact me or any other ODGC body. As the O O is expected to sell out this summer we will need help the day of the event. Any little contribution you can make ( a lawn to camp on, taking photos, Wakefield spring water, lemonade stand or side game show) would help.

Kyle


So move it the weekend before the Ettyville events that have been running for over 10 years on that date. Awesome. Love you guys too.


This was moved for the QDGT sked. Travellers out number Ottawa players at this event so we are catering to them. It's good you plan to run both events this summer again. Hopefully no other event in the two provinces conflict with your plans.


Thanks for the update Kyle. Surely the QDGT could have "swapped" out dates with other venues. Why would the only 2 serious attempts at "summer" events in Ottawa be back to back weekends?

What you see above is a cut and past of last year. Please don't read that as anything is happening at Ettyville. We're on a path for quite the opposite unfortunately.

Edit to add "summer". More in line with what I mean. There are many other serious events happening at other times. No offence to those hard working TD's.


Last edited by John Pytel on Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did a slight edit to my post above that I'd like to point out.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisher wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
Fisher wrote:
The O O will be bigger and better than ever this summer. It will be on July 23rd at Camp Fortune and will bring friends from far and wide. The full Quebec tour has been announced. The CC must continue this summer so if there is interest in helping with this event contact me or any other ODGC body. As the O O is expected to sell out this summer we will need help the day of the event. Any little contribution you can make ( a lawn to camp on, taking photos, Wakefield spring water, lemonade stand or side game show) would help.

Kyle


So move it the weekend before the Ettyville events that have been running for over 10 years on that date. Awesome. Love you guys too.


This was moved for the QDGT sked. Travellers out number Ottawa players at this event so we are catering to them. It's good you plan to run both events this summer again. Hopefully no other event in the two provinces conflict with your plans.


Got another version of the story. Not quite in-line with this yours. Nice.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

May I suggest this conversation move into the club house please?
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 2:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
May I suggest this conversation move into the club house please?


I'm going to hope you mean "off line". Respectfully this is not an ODGC conversation. Golfers who are interested in PDGA events, Organizations looking to potentially sanction gold events, Members of the QDGT, ADGM, ESSDGC, etc. Players who may be interested in PDGA and/or Gold events in the region. Potential financial sponsors of ESSDGC. To name a few.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Thumber wrote:
May I suggest this conversation move into the club house please?


I'm going to hope you mean "off line". Respectfully this is not an ODGC conversation. Golfers who are interested in PDGA events, Organizations looking to potentially sanction gold events, Members of the QDGT, ADGM, ESSDGC, etc. Players who may be interested in PDGA and/or Gold events in the region. Potential financial sponsors of ESSDGC. To name a few.


The title of the thread is " 2016 ODGC Tournaments and Events Schedule"

Discussions and concerns about scheduling should be moved to a different thread (feel free to create one) or "off-line".

What appears here should simply be information. Discussions on scheduling should happen behind the scenes.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
Thumber wrote:
May I suggest this conversation move into the club house please?


I'm going to hope you mean "off line". Respectfully this is not an ODGC conversation. Golfers who are interested in PDGA events, Organizations looking to potentially sanction gold events, Members of the QDGT, ADGM, ESSDGC, etc. Players who may be interested in PDGA and/or Gold events in the region. Potential financial sponsors of ESSDGC. To name a few.


The title of the thread is " 2016 ODGC Tournaments and Events Schedule"

Discussions and concerns about scheduling should be moved to a different thread (feel free to create one) or "off-line".

What appears here should simply be information. Discussions on scheduling should happen behind the scenes.


I don't necessarily disagree Shane. Discussions on scheduling??? That's a good one. Made my day.

Maybe a moderator can move the information to another thread (hopefully not in the club house) and I may suggest locking this thread.

I'll also point out that maybe you should point your comments to Kyle as he started the conversations in this thread.

Have a great weekend.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Thumber wrote:
John Pytel wrote:
Thumber wrote:
May I suggest this conversation move into the club house please?


I'm going to hope you mean "off line". Respectfully this is not an ODGC conversation. Golfers who are interested in PDGA events, Organizations looking to potentially sanction gold events, Members of the QDGT, ADGM, ESSDGC, etc. Players who may be interested in PDGA and/or Gold events in the region. Potential financial sponsors of ESSDGC. To name a few.


The title of the thread is " 2016 ODGC Tournaments and Events Schedule"

Discussions and concerns about scheduling should be moved to a different thread (feel free to create one) or "off-line".

What appears here should simply be information. Discussions on scheduling should happen behind the scenes.


I don't necessarily disagree Shane. Discussions on scheduling??? That's a good one. Made my day.

Maybe a moderator can move the information to another thread (hopefully not in the club house) and I may suggest locking this thread.

I'll also point out that maybe you should point your comments to Kyle as he started the conversations in this thread.

Have a great weekend.


My comments weren't pointed to anyone in particular.

This should be purely information.
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Mike McCormick
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back when I was taking an active role in trying to get things organized within the ODGC, I started a Tournament Direction Committee (which somehow has disappeared). In addition to creating a standard that all TD would have to follow, part of the effort was to alleviate this kind of conflict. And this is constantly occurring within our small club. Many years ago, I started Falling Colours because we did not have a tournament from the beginning of September (Plaid Jacket) until LNF (end of November). Now, we have the Plaid Jacket, Falling Colours, Thanksgiving weekend and then LNF on back to back weekends. Truthfully looking at changing Falling Colours to Fallen Colours and having it later just so we can provide a more spread out offering to the membership.


EDIT: I stand corrected on my broad range of dates, truthfully thought LNF was late November due to how cold some of those days were. In 2008, the first Falling Colours, the Plaid was Sept 20 and LNF was Oct 25th.
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King Geoffrey


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LNF has always been held on either the weekend following Thanksgiving, or the next weekend. It's never been held in November.
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King Geoffrey


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The JCP editions of the Plaid Jacket usually took place on weekends in the twenties during September.
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C-Kyle
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would love to see the list of participants for the OO as well as ettyville to compare how many people may actually be affected by the close dates...I doubt there is a lot
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Fisher
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we are doing a good job organizing dates. The O O and Ettyville are on different weekends so there is no conflict. The sked in Ottawa was pretty easy to guess as dates don't move often. I was concerned with conflicting with OCUA events, Don's and I vacations, planned PDGA events we both hope to attend and QDGT events. There is now a good space between Ettyville and The Plaid for someone to run The CC. And that would be a full summer.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Friends of disc golf in Ottawa.

While I don't have all the time to write about all the efforts and contact I put into scheduling disc golf over the past decade I can assure you that I've always scheduled to my best abilities around everything in the region (ADGM, QDGT, ODGC, etc). I was asked to move the OD tour event to another date many times and refused. It was going to conflict or impact somebody else. I stayed with the date. As Kyle has pointed out their event looks to attract out of town people and so does the ESSDGC August long weekend event.


Needless to say I was shocked and disappointed when I found out about the O Open moving to that date. Mark Atos had the decency to call me when moving the Capital Classic to the last date it ran. I had no issue as I said we were taking the year off as JJ was getting married and that I'd probably be back looking to run events on the August long weekend in the future. The Capital Classic stopped running and the Ettyville event continued.

I rarely like to disclose what disc golf costs me personally. It's not always about the money and been more about growing the sport, promoting the sport, and trying to build up one major event to justify the course. We spent over $20,000.00 last year (Baskets, Provincials, Course improvements). We estimate we're over $100,000 over the past 12 years. I just destroyed a $5000 mower trying to make the provincials nice that we have to replace. I'm not looking for money but just want people to understand my level of heightened concern with all of this.

What I really want to share is what I wrote to the PDGA Canada Coordinator and the Ontario and Quebec Provincial PDGA coordinators on November 3rd, 2015. I won't get into the roles and responsibilities of those positions and who they are. It's all on the internet to find out but here is one to note "Work with tournament directors and clubs within their jurisdiction and in adjoining areas to schedule PDGA Tour and other disc golf events."

Needless to say I'm shocked and disappointed. I'm looking for some answers as well.


Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 11:17 AM
Subject: Ettyville Super Spin July 30-Aug1 2016







Gentlemen,




I hope this e-mails finds everyone well.




I had wanted to send this out following the conclusion of the ODSA provincials this year and held off awaiting some announcements on the Canadian Nationals.





Scheduling time is upon us, as well as some a-tier windows have closed, so I feel I should touch base with everyone sooner than later.




I want to continue to run a "large" competitive event at the course in 2016 on the "August long weekend" where I have traditionally held events.





Given the attributes of the course (difficulty, size (27 holes), on site camping, central eastern Canada location) I want to develop a highly competitive event that appeals to competitive eastern Canadian golfers.




In discussions with Brian, I was under the impression we might see the Canadian nationals come east this year and that was of interest to me to potentially host but I'm not sure the current status or bid process.





What ever the status for the Canadian nationals is, it doesn't change the fact that I will endeavor to run an event on the August long weekend in an ongoing fashion.




My concept is to run something like an "Eastern Canadian National" at the course where by competitive disc golfers from eastern provinces can come and compete in a large (player numbers) event.





What I feel is critical for success is PDGA support and scheduling recognition within the immediate Quebec and Ontario regions.




I know I can continue to grow the financial sponsorship for a stable event on an ongoing basis.




I've attached a copy of my TD report for the provincials as an example of the quality of event I can run at the facility. I'd also note that the "event values" are all at cost where if fair market value were placed on the players pack the value could look even larger.





I'm not sure exactly what the "ask" is here other then I want to get the concept in your minds as scheduling comes up.




Currently I do not know what the sanctioning status for my event will be pending discussions with the ODSA regarding event sanctioning in their series. I suspect I will seek PDGA "B" tier status sanctioning irregardless of any outcomes from this email or ODSA discussions. Thankfully the PDGA has sanctioning rules and distance guidelines which endeavor to protect event saturation and regional event competition. I can't say that the ODSA or Quebec disc golf tour are that developed yet in their planning process but please appreciate I have some apprehension to commit to a B-tier (or A tier) event and wake up with all sort of other events and series scheduled to its detriment.





I'm hoping to open up a bit of discussion and thought sharing with you gentlemen. I know you all pretty well from the disc golf experience and have no doubt that you will immediately see some of the challenges in trying to do something larger or inter-provincially.




I'll share some of my thoughts about "large" events, what they are, and why we need them. I feel to have a large event you need large numbers of players and a large course to accommodate them. I feel you need to have good options for accommodations (on site cheap and quality local hotels). I feel you need a good facility that can accommodate side games and entertain players for the whole event. I am a believer in the Disc Golf World Tour format where a course is played over a number of days versus multiple courses for some large events but not all necessarily. A large event is where each division has respectable numbers. I don't see a 90 player events, with one or 2 divisions (AM2) making up the majority of the field and way less then 10 players in the remaining divisions, as large events nor competitive for that matter. I see those events as a well attended local event. A large competitive event is one that brings the players together to fill their divisions deeper and compete against their piers from somewhat a far. Currently the sport is doing so well in the Provinces of Quebec and Ontario but we don't see the "large event" I describe. I feel it's primarily due to scheduling and facility. I feel I have the facility in Ettyville and I feel you are the people who can influence the schedule. This is why I'm sending the e-mail out. Is there any desire to co-ordinate something to a large event in Ettyville on the August long weekend? I feel we need these events to continue to grow the competitive disc golfer and offer them something more upscale on the competitive scene that doesn't require massive travel and/or expense to get to a "large" event.





Thanks for the time gentlemen. I do appreciate that the "sanctioning" process might be the PDGA guiding light on these matter where you may question the need to even engage in the discussion. The reality is that not all things scheduled are PDGA and they have a material impact on an events success. As well as the level of support given to an event has a material impact to an events success.










Regards,













John






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Fisher
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Friends of disc golf in Ottawa.

While I don't have all the time to write about all the efforts and contact I put into scheduling disc golf over the past decade I can assure you that I've always scheduled to my best abilities around everything in the region (ADGM, QDGT, ODGC, etc). I was asked to move the OD tour event to another date many times and refused. It was going to conflict or impact somebody else. I stayed with the date. As Kyle has pointed out their event looks to attract out of town people and so does the ESSDGC August long weekend event.


Needless to say I was shocked and disappointed when I found out about the O Open moving to that date. Mark Atos had the decency to call me when moving the Capital Classic to the last date it ran. I had no issue as I said we were taking the year off as JJ was getting married and that I'd probably be back looking to run events on the August long weekend in the future. The Capital Classic stopped running and the Ettyville event continued.

I rarely like to disclose what disc golf costs me personally. It's not always about the money and been more about growing the sport, promoting the sport, and trying to build up one major event to justify the course. We spent over $20,000.00 last year (Baskets, Provincials, Course improvements). We estimate we're over $100,000 over the past 12 years. I just destroyed a $5000 mower trying to make the provincials nice that we have to replace. I'm not looking for money but just want people to understand my level of heightened concern with all of this.

What I really want to share is what I wrote to the PDGA Canada Coordinator and the Ontario and Quebec Provincial PDGA coordinators on November 3rd, 2015. I won't get into the roles and responsibilities of those positions and who they are. It's all on the internet to find out but here is one to note "Work with tournament directors and clubs within their jurisdiction and in adjoining areas to schedule PDGA Tour and other disc golf events."

Needless to say I'm shocked and disappointed. I'm looking for some answers as well.


Sent: Tuesday, November 3, 2015 11:17 AM
Subject: Ettyville Super Spin July 30-Aug1 2016







Gentlemen,




I hope this e-mails finds everyone well.




I had wanted to send this out following the conclusion of the ODSA provincials this year and held off awaiting some announcements on the Canadian Nationals.





Scheduling time is upon us, as well as some a-tier windows have closed, so I feel I should touch base with everyone sooner than later.




I want to continue to run a "large" competitive event at the course in 2016 on the "August long weekend" where I have traditionally held events.





Given the attributes of the course (difficulty, size (27 holes), on site camping, central eastern Canada location) I want to develop a highly competitive event that appeals to competitive eastern Canadian golfers.




In discussions with Brian, I was under the impression we might see the Canadian nationals come east this year and that was of interest to me to potentially host but I'm not sure the current status or bid process.





What ever the status for the Canadian nationals is, it doesn't change the fact that I will endeavor to run an event on the August long weekend in an ongoing fashion.




My concept is to run something like an "Eastern Canadian National" at the course where by competitive disc golfers from eastern provinces can come and compete in a large (player numbers) event.





What I feel is critical for success is PDGA support and scheduling recognition within the immediate Quebec and Ontario regions.




I know I can continue to grow the financial sponsorship for a stable event on an ongoing basis.




I've attached a copy of my TD report for the provincials as an example of the quality of event I can run at the facility. I'd also note that the "event values" are all at cost where if fair market value were placed on the players pack the value could look even larger.





I'm not sure exactly what the "ask" is here other then I want to get the concept in your minds as scheduling comes up.




Currently I do not know what the sanctioning status for my event will be pending discussions with the ODSA regarding event sanctioning in their series. I suspect I will seek PDGA "B" tier status sanctioning irregardless of any outcomes from this email or ODSA discussions. Thankfully the PDGA has sanctioning rules and distance guidelines which endeavor to protect event saturation and regional event competition. I can't say that the ODSA or Quebec disc golf tour are that developed yet in their planning process but please appreciate I have some apprehension to commit to a B-tier (or A tier) event and wake up with all sort of other events and series scheduled to its detriment.





I'm hoping to open up a bit of discussion and thought sharing with you gentlemen. I know you all pretty well from the disc golf experience and have no doubt that you will immediately see some of the challenges in trying to do something larger or inter-provincially.




I'll share some of my thoughts about "large" events, what they are, and why we need them. I feel to have a large event you need large numbers of players and a large course to accommodate them. I feel you need to have good options for accommodations (on site cheap and quality local hotels). I feel you need a good facility that can accommodate side games and entertain players for the whole event. I am a believer in the Disc Golf World Tour format where a course is played over a number of days versus multiple courses for some large events but not all necessarily. A large event is where each division has respectable numbers. I don't see a 90 player events, with one or 2 divisions (AM2) making up the majority of the field and way less then 10 players in the remaining divisions, as large events nor competitive for that matter. I see those events as a well attended local event. A large competitive event is one that brings the players together to fill their divisions deeper and compete against their piers from somewhat a far. Currently the sport is doing so well in the Provinces of Quebec and Ontario but we don't see the "large event" I describe. I feel it's primarily due to scheduling and facility. I feel I have the facility in Ettyville and I feel you are the people who can influence the schedule. This is why I'm sending the e-mail out. Is there any desire to co-ordinate something to a large event in Ettyville on the August long weekend? I feel we need these events to continue to grow the competitive disc golfer and offer them something more upscale on the competitive scene that doesn't require massive travel and/or expense to get to a "large" event.





Thanks for the time gentlemen. I do appreciate that the "sanctioning" process might be the PDGA guiding light on these matter where you may question the need to even engage in the discussion. The reality is that not all things scheduled are PDGA and they have a material impact on an events success. As well as the level of support given to an event has a material impact to an events success.










Regards,













John








I am sorry I have upset you so John. It was never my intention. Hopefully you will come around and we can toss some toys around your front yard someday. I chose this date as it made most sense for a number of reasons.

I don't really think this will impact your numbers as you are fighting a losing battle on that weekend from the start (Bronte, Saint-Jean-Baptiste and vacation travel plans). You have done this before so you know what to expect in term of numbers. This is not the fault of other TD's or clubs.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually Kyle I think you are confusing the point.

I am 100% in support of your event.

I know the challenges with the August long weekend but have stayed with it. The PDGA has sanctioning rules that I respect and appreciate.

There is no effort to control the universe here. Just work together hopefully.

I just did not see the benefit to Ottawa disc golfers to have these 2 events back to back. Given the reach out to the PDGA Quebec and the QDGT I'm surprised the response was to schedule an event the weekend right before in the same region.

I'm exploring my options and looking at date moves. Respectfully it is a lot harder when contemplating the Ontario schedule and all the scheduling support received in the past.

I find your comments about toys in the yard to reflect your lack of appreciation for the efforts of the ESSDGC to provide a good course and good events to the benefit of the players in the region.
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