Ottawa Disc Golf Club

Reply to topic ODGC Forums Forum Index -> Presidents Cup -> PC Discussion Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:01 pm    Post subject: PC Discussion Reply with quote

Lemons - things you didn't like

Lollipops - things you did

And discuss...


Last edited by bbp on Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Pytel
Sultan of Swill


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 3697
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

More of something for you to consider.

Looks like IceBowl is getting large MEMBER attendence. Larger numbers then some of the other tier 1 events.

Maybe it could graduate to Tier 1?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rolly
King of Commentary


Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 9817
Location: South East Division

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there was nothing i did not like, but as a suggestion instead of Tier 1 2 etc do a system where points are calculated like they were in Can-Am events where the points are something like -1st is 100pts +2pts for each person who 1st finished better then, 2nd is 95pts +2 pts for each....etc.
This will give events more of a natural weighting for scores then a tier 1/2 system that is rigid.
but in the end its the same course and we all have to race it.


Last edited by Rolly on Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:49 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Changed the topic to a discussion as my lemons and lollis aren't a venue for discussion; just a place for opinions.

Tiered Events: Rationale

We gave 3 events tier 1 status because of several things:

The CC is our PDGA event where players from all over Ontario come to compete. It's been a very hard event for an Ottawa player to win. It's also the only 2 day event on our schedule.

The Plaid is the longest running competitive event in the region. It was the first big tournament on the ODGC schedule. For many, it's the biggest event to win. It has long been considered the City Championship.

LNF is the last event on the schedule and is the Club championship. Having it a Tier 1 event allows for some excitment coming into the close of the series.

The PC has been won in many different fashions; winning all the Tier 1 events, winning just Tier 2 events, and finishing well in all events.

Other events in region are more focused on fun and charities, so I don't think they should be tagged with a Tier 1 status just for numbers. With regard to the IB, we use mulligans, wear snowshoes and play in a climate which limits practice and preparation. Its a fun event, and winning it can still get you +700 points (Philips earned 750).

There are many ways to hand out points and we've gone this way, tweaking things along the way.

Ottawa offers many cool and different formats for competition and I'm proud of this. This series celebrates our TDs imaginations.

Keep the discussion going.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Pytel
Sultan of Swill


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 3697
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Other events in region are more focused on fun and charities, so I don't think they should be tagged with a Tier 1 status just for numbers. With regard to the IB, we use mulligans, wear snowshoes and play in a climate which limits practice and preparation.


Good points!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
Quote:
Other events in region are more focused on fun and charities, so I don't think they should be tagged with a Tier 1 status just for numbers. With regard to the IB, we use mulligans, wear snowshoes and play in a climate which limits practice and preparation.


Good points!!!


As where your's and Rolly's. A rationale was needed for why things were set up the way they were.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thumber
LNF Champion


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 8271

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering the number of Ottawa players who are now playing on, or intending to play on, the QDGT, I wonder if there is any way to include those events in the PC race.

They may not be rated as full events. maybe treat them kind of the way we treat the X-mas break events in IL. Bonus points for supporting the tour sort of deal?

Just a thought.
_________________
meh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
Considering the number of Ottawa players who are now playing on, or intending to play on, the QDGT, I wonder if there is any way to include those events in the PC race.

They may not be rated as full events. maybe treat them kind of the way we treat the X-mas break events in IL. Bonus points for supporting the tour sort of deal?

Just a thought.


I've been bouncing an idea like this for a bit, in my head. Not really the PC race, but I've also been looking for a more standard way of handing out (some) Pelican invites. Here's an idea:

I could include the ADGM and the Gross Cup in a "side" events where Peli invites could be handed out to the top 5 PC-x finishers. Rationale: we compete against the MTL crew, why not include times when we compete against them.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Pytel
Sultan of Swill


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 3697
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
Thumber wrote:
Considering the number of Ottawa players who are now playing on, or intending to play on, the QDGT, I wonder if there is any way to include those events in the PC race.

They may not be rated as full events. maybe treat them kind of the way we treat the X-mas break events in IL. Bonus points for supporting the tour sort of deal?

Just a thought.


I've been bouncing an idea like this for a bit, in my head. Not really the PC race, but I've also been looking for a more standard way of handing out (some) Pelican invites. Here's an idea:

I could include the ADGM and the Gross Cup in a "side" events where Peli invites could be handed out to the top 5 PC-x finishers. Rationale: we compete against the MTL crew, why not include times when we compete against them.


I don't wan't to de-rail but it may factor into that thought pattern.

I've been considering trying to schedule an event (course championship) before the Pelican. I see that as a great opportunity to award positions based or guage play at the course in a tournament format. In a perfect world the ADGM Peli contenders would show up as well.


With the CC, the Peli, and the QDGT, and Quebec provincials (August 16,17), and grosse coupe makes DG every weekend expect for the long weekends from July to the middle of september. June will obviously fill up with other local events.

It's a full calender as usual. So much good with that and so much difficulty with pooling any or all of it together.

Back to the PC.

Outside of "tiering" which I raised my voice in the past about making "must attend" events for points as the prestige of them already draws. I respect that the PC isn't about golfing every weekend and looks to the ODGC event calender. Once we look past that the calender it is completely full and we will see conflicting events for sure but I do respect the soft approach Shane put forward.

Hope that makes sense. If you sanction with the ODGC you should get PC consideration first .

QDGT is great but to me that's like hitting a non ODGC event except for the OO.

You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know you can travel just about to any course/event in Quebec easier then getting to Oshawa so it makes sense to travel there for tour play for sure.

All this is without prejudice folks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:

Hope that makes sense. If you sanction with the ODGC you should get PC consideration first .

QDGT is great but to me that's like hitting a non ODGC event except for the OO.


This is one my arguments against the idea: the PC should push ODGC events run by ODGC volunteers. It's a good one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Fisher
ODGC Secretary


Joined: 08 Feb 2012
Posts: 643

PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More food for thought.

I like the idea of awarding the winner with club pro status and displaying this info on the front Page. You have to be a good golfer to win in this town and having a club pro might help with mentorship initiatives. If more new players found they got noticeably better after playing club events, they may want to play more. Even now I learn allot when there is a demonstration. It would have to be up to the pro how far to takes this.

Love the series. Makes sense.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Pytel
Sultan of Swill


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 3697
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
John Pytel wrote:

Hope that makes sense. If you sanction with the ODGC you should get PC consideration first .

QDGT is great but to me that's like hitting a non ODGC event except for the OO.


This is one my arguments against the idea: the PC should push ODGC events run by ODGC volunteers. It's a good one.


and to state the obvious. The QDGT is a series unto itself with points and awards.

Life can be about choices and I know there will be ODGC events on the same dates as QDGT. That's just a reality.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thumber
LNF Champion


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 8271

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisher wrote:
More food for thought.

I like the idea of awarding the winner with club pro status


Isn't this the Captain of the Pelican Team?
_________________
meh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fisher wrote:

I like the idea of awarding the winner with club pro status and displaying this info on the front Page. You have to be a good golfer to win in this town and having a club pro might help with mentorship initiatives.


Recognition is high on my wants. It was tough when I kept winning and I was the one recognizing. Now we have Dros, so we can use him as a guinea pig. Mr. Green

I would also like a way to recognize the top 5. Bouncing around the idea of having the top 5 getting invites to the Pelican team for the following year. If we get the BS going again, maybe even the winner of that, then the rest get filled with captain's picks.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
Recognition is high on my wants.


I've been in discussions with past and present Pelican captains and this is how I would like to see the PC series and the Pelican Team work together:

This would be the President Cup Series 2014 for the 2015 Pelican team.

- The captain (winner of the PC race)
- Spot #2 (2nd place PC)
- Spot #3 (3rd place PC)
- Spot #4 (winner of the BS race)
- And the rest is chosen by the Cap/Co-Cap (Co-captain chosen by the captain)

(If the 2nd place and 3rd place can't make the date, the spot doesn't go to the 4th or 5th, the spots become Captain picks. Same for BS Champ.)

This would make the selection process a bit more transparent and allow for ODGC players to set some goals for the season.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also want LNF to be the finish to the PC season. This would mean that OMPL matches need to be finished before, or at LNF.

Why?

- I like a finish line

- waiting for 4 weeks after LNF, and not actually having a scheduled date is frustrating. If OMPL had implications in the standings this would also grow frustrating for the players in the run. Not knowing when the event is going to happen and waiting for results, that are posted in a forum that isn't followed by a non-competitor is frustrating.

- after LNF I consider the competitive disc golf season over, as well I consider my commitment to the PC series over.

- it would be nice to know the champion at the LNF after party; which some have considered the end-of-season celebration.


I have solutions to those times when a final match happens after LNF.

For example, the 2013 OMPL final match took place 4 weeks after LNF. For the sake of the PC standings, both players would get the average of 1st and 2nd place PC points.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
burjwahzeh
Overflow Overlord


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 4460
Location: Somewhere where my mind is not.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 29, 2014 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
I also want LNF to be the finish to the PC season. This would mean that OMPL matches need to be finished before, or at LNF.

Why?

...

You don't need to say a thing.

EVERYTHING should come to a close at LNF.

Finals is the operative word. Everything else can finish by the week before LNF.
_________________
Privacy is a means to democracy, not an end in itself. - unknown
Sabotage the system. Provoke more questions! - unknown
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
John Pytel
Sultan of Swill


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 3697
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bbp wrote:
bbp wrote:
Recognition is high on my wants.


I've been in discussions with past and present Pelican captains and this is how I would like to see the PC series and the Pelican Team work together:

This would be the President Cup Series 2014 for the 2015 Pelican team.

- The captain (winner of the PC race)
- Spot #2 (2nd place PC)
- Spot #3 (3rd place PC)
- Spot #4 (winner of the BS race)
- And the rest is chosen by the Cap/Co-Cap (Co-captain chosen by the captain)

(If the 2nd place and 3rd place can't make the date, the spot doesn't go to the 4th or 5th, the spots become Captain picks. Same for BS Champ.)

This would make the selection process a bit more transparent and allow for ODGC players to set some goals for the season.


As you know the Pelican team is up to each club to choose in a manner they want.

I, as Pelican TD and Switzerland, had encouraged clubs to build in a team selection process in the past.

Here's what I observed. ADGM went about that and EVERY year it caused termoil and decention on the team. My observations on this are that we are not pro's playing a defined pro tour. The cup selections for pro bolf and the likes are based on 100% participation in 100% the same situation. PGA and/or world golf rankings. We all don't get enough PDGA rounds in to trust that ranking as well as arguably our ODGC handicaps.

The reality is that disc golfers participate in many things. ODGC, OD Tour, Ontario Gold, QDGT, PDGA events in the states, etc, etc. So the ADGM model of "must" attend and / or earn points here, and only here, ended up not really working and not bringing out the best golfers. I also noted that a lot of great golfers with the young families don't get to all the weekend events and can get missed.

ADGM has shifted more to what the ODGC has done and it's improved things greatly. The better players are there as well as all the up and comers wanting in and no complaints on transparency. They are a team just like Ottawa always was.

The PC may be about the best all around series to measure talent and I do see suggesting to only choose x members with it. Would the best golfers not be on the team or a different outcome happen? Probably not but for whatever reason ADGM had alot of trouble with all measurement processes.
Would the Captain and Co-Captain make the wrong picks? Probably not as well.

One last thought is are the best 4 at the PC race end (Oct) going to the the best 4 golfers the following year in July/Aug? Not suggesting a different series but maybe you use it to measure from Pelican to Pelican for Pelican qualification scoring?

I just though I'd share that info.

I also know that this event is getting closer and more competive everyday and the need to bring the best team is getting more and more important.

Can't wait to host this up again this year. Without the OD weekend I'll definetely be putting more into this one for the players.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
John Pytel
Sultan of Swill


Joined: 17 Aug 2005
Posts: 3697
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burjwahzeh wrote:
bbp wrote:
I also want LNF to be the finish to the PC season. This would mean that OMPL matches need to be finished before, or at LNF.

Why?

...

You don't need to say a thing.

EVERYTHING should come to a close at LNF.

Finals is the operative word. Everything else can finish by the week before LNF.


If this is to garner more excitement as LNF being the event to make the final PC determinations and draw people. I 100% get that and think it's cool but maybe we need to re-brand it somewhat to PC Club finals or something and make it a policy of the clubs or something and drift away from "league night".

I think sometimes the intent may be obvious but it needs to be stated and the event was always promoted as a League Night bonus.

"All things can finish the week before" is not necessarily right. I'll assume that sanctioned event post LNF would fall into the next calender year PC race. Give TD's a chance to still run some late events. Fright night, etc

OMPL? As long as payment isn't the end date then you stand a chance. lol.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bbp
King Geoffrey


Joined: 08 Dec 2013
Posts: 1940
Location: On the green

PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:

If this is to garner more excitement as LNF being the event to make the final PC determinations and draw people. I 100% get that and think it's cool but maybe we need to re-brand it somewhat to PC Club finals or something and make it a policy of the clubs or something and drift away from "league night".


It's just a name. The name has a history attached to it. I see no reason to change it and rebrand it. It has recognition even in MTL.

Quote:

I think sometimes the intent may be obvious but it needs to be stated and the event was always promoted as a League Night bonus.


I've never promoted it that way. Where do you see that happening?

Quote:

"All things can finish the week before" is not necessarily right. I'll assume that sanctioned event post LNF would fall into the next calender year PC race. Give TD's a chance to still run some late events. Fright night, etc


An event held at night, in costumes, isn't really the competitive event I think about when I think about a series. Back in the day, when FFFM was actually an annual event, it was discussed whether or not to include it, but we came to a decision that it was more a fun event (where some players stopped playing in the middle of the round to set off fireworks or scare others with their prosthetics).

A series needs an end. It's been LNF for years. I would like it to actually be the end event.

Quote:
OMPL? As long as payment isn't the end date then you stand a chance. lol.


Are you proposing the end event be OMPL?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ODGC Forums Forum Index -> Presidents Cup All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
RSS Feed for Latest Posts