Ottawa Disc Golf Club

Reply to topic ODGC Forums Forum Index -> Disc Golf Rules & Course Safety -> New procedure for eating protectionists
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Thumber
LNF Champion


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 8270

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: New procedure for eating protectionists Reply with quote

http://www.pdga.com/ratings-manipulation-addressed
_________________
meh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jefrey A. Brother
King Jefrey


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 10042
Location: First tee

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hilarious. I've witnessed this. Funny.
_________________
Boyle says BOOM!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Thumber
LNF Champion


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 8270

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jefrey A. Brother wrote:
Hilarious. I've witnessed this. Funny.


Me too. More than once
_________________
meh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
burjwahzeh
Overflow Overlord


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 4460
Location: Somewhere where my mind is not.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is there not a rule in the competition manual that states players are expected to play to the best of their abilities? Or that they must always attempt to advance the position of their next throw? (I'm not wanting to get into a "you can move backwards and still be moving forwards discussion" here.)

Yet another example of missing tenets in the rules of the sport of disc golf. This is such simple stuff, but nobody at the PDGA wants to get any of it right, or knows what I'm even talking about when I talk about tenets.
_________________
Privacy is a means to democracy, not an end in itself. - unknown
Sabotage the system. Provoke more questions! - unknown
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Holly D
Overflow Overlord


Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 4302
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was very, very confused about the eating part. laughing
_________________
1020 rated lunch preparationist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Adrian1657
Driver


Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 460
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So people were trowing games so that they wouldn't move up in div.? or is there another reason i'm missing?
_________________
Ice Bowl is the only good thing with February.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chuck Shick
Plaid Jacket Champion


Joined: 05 Sep 2000
Posts: 1897
Location: Chelsea

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as it's all about 100% payout in plastic and your cleaning house in the AM2 division, there's huge incentive to keep your rating down. In some cases, the lower divisions pay more than open.

The easiest way to dissuade people from tanking their rating is to eliminate the incentive (payout) and make improvement and winning the reason for playing.
_________________
Cell phones make it easy to communicate with everybody except the people you're currently with.

Will Ferrell
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Holly D
Overflow Overlord


Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 4302
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is about people throwing their rounds to keep their ratings high.
_________________
1020 rated lunch preparationist
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Thumber
LNF Champion


Joined: 08 Nov 2007
Posts: 8270

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Shick wrote:
As long as it's all about 100% payout in plastic and your cleaning house in the AM2 division, there's huge incentive to keep your rating down. In some cases, the lower divisions pay more than open.

The easiest way to dissuade people from tanking their rating is to eliminate the incentive (payout) and make improvement and winning the reason for playing.


Agreed.

I have also see "pros" throw rounds and tourneys purely out of ego and nt waning their rating to go down. Last time I saw it I didn't really think the guy had a leg to stand on
_________________
meh


Last edited by Thumber on Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:33 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adrian1657
Driver


Joined: 04 Jul 2011
Posts: 460
Location: Ottawa

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now i see, so your having a bad round at the tounry that will kill your rating you just leave after lunch and take the DNF to save your rating. Yes that is very unsportmenslike.
_________________
Ice Bowl is the only good thing with February.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rolly
King of Commentary


Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 9817
Location: South East Division

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Shick wrote:


The easiest way to dissuade people from tanking their rating is to eliminate the incentive (payout) and make improvement and winning the reason for playing.


completely disagree. You eliminate pay out, you'll see numbers shrink. what needs to be done is ramp the payout factor so the incentive is to move up.

Can people be forced to play above a div they dont want to? I thought that the guidelines of what your ratings is to what div you play is voluntary? not Mando. So as long as people can play what div they like then why would they tank rounds to stay in lower div's? I see much of the incentive to tank rounds is ego. so people dont see there name slip down the list.

My thoughts on the bad round is its only 1/20th of your total score, dont sweat it. go out and get 5 good rounds in and pull up that stnd deviation value so that shit round is gone, tanking rounds really is setting you up to bring that rating down if a trend of bad play continues.


Last edited by Rolly on Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
burjwahzeh
Overflow Overlord


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
Posts: 4460
Location: Somewhere where my mind is not.

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like no-payout for AM divisions. I accept that not everyone does.

When I was running tournaments and setting prize levels, I always wanted to make sure that the top AM2 received less of a prize than they would have had they finished with the same score in the AM1 division.

The motivation to stay low is then gone.

As for tanking rounds: I've heard of specific pros doing this.

I would guess it had to do with contract details related to having higher ratings.

Example (completely made up, of course): 10% bonus for above 990; 15% bonus for above 1000.

It's one thing to lose a tournament; it's another to lose your bonus in all of your tournaments.
_________________
Privacy is a means to democracy, not an end in itself. - unknown
Sabotage the system. Provoke more questions! - unknown
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Chuck Shick
Plaid Jacket Champion


Joined: 05 Sep 2000
Posts: 1897
Location: Chelsea

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rolly wrote:
Chuck Shick wrote:


The easiest way to dissuade people from tanking their rating is to eliminate the incentive (payout) and make improvement and winning the reason for playing.


completely disagree. You eliminate pay out, you'll see numbers shrink. what needs to be done is ramp the payout factor so the incentive is to move up.


I disagree that you completely disagree. Ramping payout is eliminating incentive. Ramping payout encourages improvement. The only thing we disagree on here is what the bottom of the ramp looks like.

The high end is about keeping your rating high, the low end is about keeping it down so you can stay in Am 1 or 2 without looking like a bagger on paper.
_________________
Cell phones make it easy to communicate with everybody except the people you're currently with.

Will Ferrell


Last edited by Chuck Shick on Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Chuck Shick
Plaid Jacket Champion


Joined: 05 Sep 2000
Posts: 1897
Location: Chelsea

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Holly D wrote:
This is about people throwing their rounds to keep their ratings high.


I was speaking to the tenets of the game. If dg ever becomes big enough that your rating dictates whether or not you can particpate in an event, the issue will play both ways. In sports where ratings are your ticket to enty, 20 points can mean the difference between being the top rated competitor at the event (favoured to win "cash") or the worst rated player riding the back of the bus with little or no chance.
_________________
Cell phones make it easy to communicate with everybody except the people you're currently with.

Will Ferrell


Last edited by Chuck Shick on Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rolly
King of Commentary


Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 9817
Location: South East Division

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

burjwahzeh wrote:
I like no-payout for AM divisions. I accept that not everyone does.

When I was running tournaments and setting prize levels, I always wanted to make sure that the top AM2 received less of a prize than they would have had they finished with the same score in the AM1 division.


Dont get me wrong here, I do do for the most part, but the norm is so established switching to this will be like taking candies from babies.

Am2's 1st place prize should be 4/5's the value (or less) of the last place prize value for am1. Maybee even 3/5's. Hell, for years I have been saying have d div's, open, and everyone else.

Also paying out like what happens on Tue nights would be a good idea also. You crush your own avg game in a nice round, you win stuff.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Rolly
King of Commentary


Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 9817
Location: South East Division

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuck Shick wrote:
Ramping payout is eliminating incentive. Ramping payout encourages improvement. The only thing we disagree on here is what the bottom of the ramp looks like.


Its not eliminating incentive, its just moving it. You can still win stuff if one likes to, its just not as easy. Eliminating it is abolishing prizes all together.
I think the bottom of the ramp should be low enough so you can get on the ramp with a skateboard wheel no problem. (Nice and Low)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ODGC Forums Forum Index -> Disc Golf Rules & Course Safety All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
RSS Feed for Latest Posts