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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 8:38 am    Post subject: Retee Order Reply with quote

If you throw a shot OB off the tee, and you choose to re-tee, when do you throw the shot. Immediately, after everyone else goes or when you choose.

I think in bolf it is immediate. I also think this is how it should be.

Couldn't find it in the rules manual
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andros
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Retee Order Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
Couldn't find it in the rules manual


Neither could I.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how it might be worded in"bolf" but once you have the tee it is yours until you are done in my mind.
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mind tells me to go right away again too. No waiting to "regroup" yourself. It's your tee untill you are completed your throw(s).
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Chuck Shick
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John Pytel wrote:
"bolf"


...my new favourite word.
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Rolly
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you go after the group,
Someone write an e-mail to the PDGA for clarification of the law...
(I cant here)
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

801.02 Order of Play

A. Teeing order on the first teeing area is determined by the order in which the scorecards were filled out or by the order the players were listed or arranged on the scoreboard.

B. Teeing order on all subsequent tees is determined by the scores on the previous hole, with the lowest score throwing first, and so on. If the previous hole was a tie, the scores are to be counted back until the order is resolved.

C. After all the players in the group have teed off, the player farthest from the hole (the away player) throws first. To facilitate flow of play, a player who is not farthest away may play next if the away player consents.

D. During tournament play, no group may play through the group ahead unless the group ahead is required to stand aside in accordance with the rules or as directed by an official.

E. Throwing out of turn shall be considered a courtesy violation. See 801.01F.


So I guess you actually throw after everyone as your "lie" is still on the tee box and you are thus furthest away. Further, if you just went and threw without permission of the group its a courtesy violation.
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OMR
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds reasonable...
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
801.02 Order of Play


C. After all the players in the group have teed off, the player farthest from the hole (the away player) throws first. To facilitate flow of play, a player who is not farthest away may play next if the away player consents.

So I guess you actually throw after everyone as your "lie" is still on the tee box and you are thus furthest away. Further, if you just went and threw without permission of the group its a courtesy violation.


Wrong. This is after you have tee'd off, which technically you have completed yet. Think ball golf for a moment. If a player puts one in the drink off the tee, do they wait for everybody else to go then retee? No.

Thumber wrote:

E. Throwing out of turn shall be considered a courtesy violation. See 801.01F.


This has nothing to do with it.
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Last edited by Roxie on Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roxie wrote:
Thumber wrote:
801.02 Order of Play


C. After all the players in the group have teed off, the player farthest from the hole (the away player) throws first. To facilitate flow of play, a player who is not farthest away may play next if the away player consents.


Wrong. This is after you have tee'd off, which technically you have completed yet. Think ball golf for a moment. If a player puts one in the drink off the tee, do they wait for everybody else to go then retee? No.

Thumber wrote:

E. Throwing out of turn shall be considered a courtesy violation. See 801.01F.

This has nothing to do with it.
So I guess you actually throw after everyone as your "lie" is still on the tee box and you are thus furthest away. Further, if you just went and threw without permission of the group its a courtesy violation.


And thus the confusion. Technically you have teed off. Your second shot just happens o still be on the tee.

I know how bolf works but its not the same game.
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes you've tee'd off, but your shot(turn) is not completed(You have not established your next lie yet). BTW this would only occur on a lost disc or unplayable lie. You go OB off the tee you play it where it went out.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roxie wrote:
Yes you've tee'd off, but your shot(turn) is not completed(You have not established your next lie yet). BTW this would only occur on a lost disc or unplayable lie. You go OB off the tee you play it where it went out.


That's what I was thinking as well.

With the new rules you can rethrow your tee shot without the disc being lost or declared unplayable. It is OB. I think you always had this option.
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, new rules aside. If you are re-teeing, you take it right away.
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John Pytel
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also think it's even more important, with the new rules (option to re-throw), that you have to finish tee'ing off in turn. Otherwise there's a potential advantage gain basing your decision to re-throw and how you throw it from what the rest of the card did.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roxie wrote:
Yes you've tee'd off, but your shot(turn) is not completed(You have not established your next lie yet). BTW this would only occur on a lost disc or unplayable lie. You go OB off the tee you play it where it went out.


I disagree (surprise, surprise). I'd suggest that you have established your next lie, as it is by default at the tee pad.

Also, for consideration, a situation:

I tee off as the first player on hole 13 at Fortune, and, since we did not use a spotter, believe my drive to be in the schnarb beyond the basket. Then, the rest of the players on my card tee off, and we walk down to the green.

At that point, we note that my drive has rolled through the schnarb into the creek, and is OB. So now I choose to retee, and am the last person to tee off.

This situation leads me to believe that in the spirit of "keeping the game moving", any OB retee should be taken after all other players have teed off.

Also, another "out there" situation could have me teeing off into OB until my bag is empty, forcing other players to "cool off", and perhaps lose competitive advantage.

So, my suggestion would be that retees be taken from the "back of the bus".

Just MHO.
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Thumber
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lissyssil wrote:
Roxie wrote:
Yes you've tee'd off, but your shot(turn) is not completed(You have not established your next lie yet). BTW this would only occur on a lost disc or unplayable lie. You go OB off the tee you play it where it went out.


I disagree (surprise, surprise). I'd suggest that you have established your next lie, as it is by default at the tee pad.

Also, for consideration, a situation:

I tee off as the first player on hole 13 at Fortune, and, since we did not use a spotter, believe my drive to be in the schnarb beyond the basket. Then, the rest of the players on my card tee off, and we walk down to the green.

At that point, we note that my drive has rolled through the schnarb into the creek, and is OB. So now I choose to retee, and am the last person to tee off.

This situation leads me to believe that in the spirit of "keeping the game moving", any OB retee should be taken after all other players have teed off.

Also, another "out there" situation could have me teeing off into OB until my bag is empty, forcing other players to "cool off", and perhaps lose competitive advantage.

So, my suggestion would be that retees be taken from the "back of the bus".

Just MHO.


The situation you point out Mark is not relevant. We are talking about when you know you are OB. You don't establish your lie until you walk up to where you went OB and drop a mini. Then you have a lie. To say your lie is established as the tee pad is a logic jump and not supported by the rules.
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lissyssil
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:
The situation you point out Mark is not relevant. We are talking about when you know you are OB. You don't establish your lie until you walk up to where you went OB and drop a mini. Then you have a lie. To say your lie is established as the tee pad is a logic jump and not supported by the rules.
Good point. I now agree with your assessment of the situation.
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Roxie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd gladly sit and watch you tincup it until you got one in big grin
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deuce
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thumber wrote:

...

C. After all the players in the group have teed off, the player farthest from the hole (the away player) throws first. To facilitate flow of play, a player who is not farthest away may play next if the away player consents.

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Roxie
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watcha gettin at Deuce?
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